paraone
Active Member
but again your inability to describe why you like or dislike something does lead one to believe you have a lack of insight. I'm not trying to convince you to like anything, I am curious as to how you came to your position.
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Graffitti and the inspiration that comes....
- Thread starter paraone
- Start date
drone
Active Member
It's opinion like you said in your earlier post...
I can describe what I like perfectly, but, I shouldn't have to tell anyone that I like a particular work because it reminds me of damien hirsch's work or because I love the media the artist chose. I like installation art, but, I don't have to know anything about it to appreciate it.
I know much more about music, I play several instruments, and even know the physics of sound. But, I never consider that when I listen to music. I like what I like and I can listen to Britney Spears and like it, as much as I can listen to merzbow and like it. Just because I know music, doesn't mean I appreciate it more than others. I can say how deep the production is, or how well the music is written...but, I've also heard music where the vocals sucked, lousy production etc...but the song works
All the theory applied to art, is, in my opinion a way for people to justify art. Art doesn't need to be justified..it has intrinsic value. People dropping names and using words like "its so derivitive" is art snobbery
I can describe what I like perfectly, but, I shouldn't have to tell anyone that I like a particular work because it reminds me of damien hirsch's work or because I love the media the artist chose. I like installation art, but, I don't have to know anything about it to appreciate it.
I know much more about music, I play several instruments, and even know the physics of sound. But, I never consider that when I listen to music. I like what I like and I can listen to Britney Spears and like it, as much as I can listen to merzbow and like it. Just because I know music, doesn't mean I appreciate it more than others. I can say how deep the production is, or how well the music is written...but, I've also heard music where the vocals sucked, lousy production etc...but the song works
All the theory applied to art, is, in my opinion a way for people to justify art. Art doesn't need to be justified..it has intrinsic value. People dropping names and using words like "its so derivitive" is art snobbery
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Urban Shocker
Doyenne
.............................................
Yawn.
paraone
Active Member
There's wonderful insight anything constructive to say?
next time I'll use a Thesaurus to inflate my post with pseudo-intellect
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paraone
Active Member
Well at least your trying to engage in a conversation of sorts. When you make a statement like "none of this should be associated with art" yes I think you do need to justify it, and if you don't want to justify it don't post it. I've never claimed to appreciate art more than anyone else, I posted some examples of work by some very highly talented artists in order to have a constructive debate on the merits of the work, that evlolved through or out of the style we know as grafitti. All we have gotten is the typical dribble that this board has become in the last five years. Is it the subject matter? the composition? the use of weight? colour? what is it that makes these works not fit to be considered art in your opinon? are the not engageing enough for you?
"I've also heard music where the vocals sucked, lousy production etc...but the song works" same goes for art, some is technically weak but still for some reason works, others are highly produced and don't move the viewer or convey the message that was intended.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
That sums up your pretentious claims for the artistic value of the derivative, adolescent imagery you've posted links to.
paraone
Active Member
and again you've failed to make your case as to why this is derivative, adolescent imagery, these are artist and designers that have recieved very high acclaim from very highly thought of insitutions.
Sometimes you post thoughtful things other times you border on troll, I think the latter applies this time. I know your a grad of OCA back in the day, as am I, so I find it hard that you can't respond in a manner that actually builds dialogue rather than resorts to one line snobbery.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
What have "Loomit", "Twist" or "SABER" ever produced that justifies your claim that they're great artists?
Most of it looks like hippie airbrush van art from the '70s, done by not very bright 20 year olds. Judging by the images he produces, Loomit's cruelly limited fantasy life is particularly sad. Twist's peurile daubings are horribly squalid and unoriginal. That SABER's great, big, huge kaka-esque pictures can be seen in satellite photos doesn't elevate them to a level of significance beyond anything else on the sidewalk that one might accidentally tread in.
Most of it looks like hippie airbrush van art from the '70s, done by not very bright 20 year olds. Judging by the images he produces, Loomit's cruelly limited fantasy life is particularly sad. Twist's peurile daubings are horribly squalid and unoriginal. That SABER's great, big, huge kaka-esque pictures can be seen in satellite photos doesn't elevate them to a level of significance beyond anything else on the sidewalk that one might accidentally tread in.
paraone
Active Member
Well firstly both Loomit and Twist have been displayed at the MOMA in New york and twist has been a regular at MOMA SF, more than could be said about a lot of artists. Loomit has been sanctioned by many museums and city governments for murals, Berlin, Munich, frankfurt and Geneva. He was also sponsored by Sony on 2 tours of the US/Canada.Loomits design of a mural of a 12 storey apartment building in Germany wasnot only a fine work but a feat in engineering in itself. Twist has been displayed in many galleries in the US and europe as well. He has designed shoes for Adidas and painted a sancutioned mural for an elected offical in the SF City Hall. For the record Twist is 44 and Loomit is 42 and most would argue have taken a huge leap over the derivative, adolescent imagery you claim it to be.
Thats more then can be said about alot of artists and I'm assuming yourself included. I'll address the others when team canada is not about to take to the ice.
drone
Active Member
I think were on the same page..I actually like the art you posted..in short, what I'm trying to say is, art is art, no matter who does it or how they do it or what they do with it. Graffiti is art in my opnion, some I like, some I don't ...I guess I'm different in that I am aware that most people are limited in what they perceive as being legit art. I don't feel that way,, I would even go so far as to say that someone even tagging is art, maybe not to everyone, but some people may be able to relate to it. I don't know enough about art theory or history to go further than my statements.
doady
Senior Member
Graffiti is like hip hop music: defacing other people's property with or without their permission, stealing other people's ideas, crudeness, urbanity, adolescence, gangs, and disses, all masquerading as art and culture.
paraone
Active Member
you think that up all by your little ol' self? And what's with your avatar?
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
Tokenism, like putting Lisa Rochon on an OCAD jury to select the design of bicycle stands.
" OCAD students were challenged to consider how bicycle stands installed on the redeveloped property could be highly conceptual urban pedestrian sculpture, as well as functional. Thirty-five student teams submitted their designs; ten were shortlisted as finalists. The final ten designs were presented to a jury that included Lisa Rochon (architecture critic for The Globe and Mail ), architect Robert Chang, Nancy Kendrew (part-owner of Urbane Cyclist), Bill Saundercook (Toronto City Councillor, Ward 13 — Parkdale–High Park), Marc Glassman (owner of Pages Books & Magazines and member of the Queen Street West Business Improvement Area board of management), Bruce Hinds (Chair, Environmental Design, OCAD) and Colleen Reid (Associate Professor, Faculty of Design, OCAD). "
paraone
Active Member
Wow Shocker, that is really your most pathetic rebuttal, reach any further?