GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[crs1026]

Well, directly in front of the loco based on direction of travel (see other views).

So the last passenger car derailed after all the others successfully negotiated that piece of track.

The loco and rear of the last coach ended up on the next track over from where the front of the train had been routed. Something made them take a diverging path at a switch. Any number of mechanical issues could cause that - weather, ice, and extreme cold are all suspects, as are broken somethings. Or the switch points shifted. Nothing we can diagnose from the bleachers, but both operating and maintenance/inspection practices and actions/omissions would need examination.

- Paul

 

[Richard White]

This is a significant cold snap, one that has pushed the Great Lakes beyond the max ice cover seen around February 21 last year (~52%), and it's climbing at a very fast rate compared to other years. I think it's plausible that it's going to drive some issues.

Even still something caused both derailments

 

[smallspy]

Don't you just love it when Metrolinx is caught lying to the public. They tell the public its a signalling issue when in reality it is a derailment plain and simple. Metrolinx is so concerned about their squeaky clean record that they will twist themselves to the max to control the PR event. New outlets are now starting to call the event a derailment while Metrolinx still insists its a signalling issue.

They weren't lying - the derailment severed signal wires, causing a signal outage on the west side of the USRC.

This is why train service had to stop. The derailment itself knocked out a couple of tracks as well as the top half of Ladder 1. But without the signals, nothing could move until they fixed them.

The Operators would know. If the sound did not alert them, the sudden jolt would.

That said the train was enroute to Bramalea on the Kitchener line so the derailed train was directly behind the locomotive.

The train was in push mode. The operators were 1100 feet away from the equipment that derailed.

For the record, the switches within the USRC are *in theory* capable of moving with equipment running on them. It is pretty unlikely to happen, although there not the same level of detection on the tracks as there is out on the mainlines. There, not only do switches detect a train passing over them, but also trains approaching and leaving them.

Right now, it is looking like there was a wide gauge in the track, which allowed the wheels to drop in between the rails.

Dan

 

[Voltz]

Since most of the lines meet a subway station after leaving Union, I hope they thought of and are able to run trains to and from those stations, leaving Union as clear as they can for the lines that don’t. Obviously not easy to do at the drop of a hat, like they might not have trains in place on each line to run.

 

[dowlingm]

https://groups.io/g/Canadian-Passenger-Rail/message/102881

"Apparently coach 4234 was already on the ground before entering the switch at 08:06 am"

 

[NW87]

A derailed car at 15mph feels like someone is jackhammering concrete near your feet and in some cases no sudden jolt is felt at slower speeds, as the car even derailed is still headed in the same direction. (From experience).

 

[APTA-2048]

Saying *anything* is better than saying nothing. The GO email "alerts" have been very spotty.

I thought it was just me. I got only one email alert and it was around 3 1/2h after the incident happened.

 

[JSF-1]

Well if there is anything we learned today it is the well known and obvious flaw of the Hub-and-Spoke transit system, especially when there is only 1 hub. If it goes down the whole network falls apart. If there is anything that has been laid bare today it is firstly the need for more hubs where lines can be terminated and passengers quickly diverted onto other lines. East Harbour and Exhibition can become this when the OL opens although this will only apply to the Lake Shore Lines. Secondly it also shows the strong need for a bypass around downtown (e.g. Midtown). The OL will help fill this role with its connections to Exhibition and East Harbour for the Lake Shore Lines, but for the other routes the Midtown line would be a far more viable bypass.

 

[Bojaxs]

Well if there is anything we learned today it is the well known and obvious flaw of the Hub-and-Spoke transit system, especially when there is only 1 hub. If it goes down the whole network falls apart. If there is anything that has been laid bare today it is firstly the need for more hubs where lines can be terminated and passengers quickly diverted onto other lines. East Harbour and Exhibition can become this when the OL opens although this will only apply to the Lake Shore Lines. Secondly it also shows the strong need for a bypass around downtown (e.g. Midtown). The OL will help fill this role with its connections to Exhibition and East Harbour for the Lake Shore Lines, but for the other routes the Midtown line would be a far more viable bypass.

Not disagreeing. Would love to see the Midtown line, but doesn't this already exist with Line 2? If something was wrong at Union, then riders on the Kitchener Line could get off at Bloor, Stouffville riders could get off at Kennedy, and Milton riders could get off at Kipling.

 

[JSF-1]

Not disagreeing. Would love to see the Midtown line, but doesn't this already exist with Line 2? If something was wrong at Union, than riders on the Kitchener Line could get off at Bloor, Stouffville riders could get off at Kennedy, and Milton riders could get off at Kipling.

Sure but we do need to acknowledge that the subway is slower then the GO Train and while it may only be for a day we really should avoid dumping even more riders onto the subway network, especially during rush-hour when trains are already jam-packed. As well Line 2 is the only east-west route we have near downtown so if that goes down as well which is a very real possibility especially with more people trying to ride it, then we'll just end up with an even bigger mess. We all know that our transit network lacks redundancy, that includes both the TTC and GO and simply trying to shift riders between multiple GO lines and a single subway line is not ideal and is a bigger disaster waiting to happen. The reverse is true as well; shifting riders from a frequent subway network to infrequent GO lines also sucks. Just like we need another east-west subway line through downtown, the GO network needs another east-west line away from downtown connecting the lines together to give it redundancy. The redundancy we build into both the subway and GO network will compliment each other and not only give riders more options but also give the TTC and GO more options to shift passengers around when something goes wrong.

To use an example, the Chicago El also has the same issue since if the loop goes down then all but 2 line fall apart. I know transit fans over in Chicago have their own "pipe-dream" subway line; that being an orbital route connecting the lines together outside of downtown. I would argue Toronto could benefit from 2 orbital routes. The Midtown from Mississauga to Scarborough which would not only be a great by-pass for the GO network (while still being near downtown) but could also pull riders off of Lines 2, and 5 if it operates at a reasonable frequency. The other orbital route should be one north of Toronto between Halton and Durham via Hwy 7 in York Region (or in the vicinity) to offer suburb-to-suburb travel without having to go through downtown.

 

[Bojaxs]

Sure but we do need to acknowledge that the subway is slower then the GO Train and while it may only be for a day we really should avoid dumping even more riders onto the subway network, especially during rush-hour when trains are already jam-packed. As well Line 2 is the only east-west route we have near downtown so if that goes down as well which is a very real possibility especially with more people trying to ride it, then we'll just end up with an even bigger mess. We all know that our transit network lacks redundancy, that includes both the TTC and GO and simply trying to shift riders between multiple GO lines and a single subway line is not ideal and is a bigger disaster waiting to happen. The reverse is true as well; shifting riders from a frequent subway network to infrequent GO lines also sucks. Just like we need another east-west subway line through downtown, the GO network needs another east-west line away from downtown connecting the lines together to give it redundancy. The redundancy we build into both the subway and GO network will compliment each other and not only give riders more options but also give the TTC and GO more options to shift passengers around when something goes wrong.

Agree, the subway along Bloor couldn't handle the sudden crush of riders if there is an issue at Union.

Good thing we built an LRT along Eglinton.

 

[urbanclient]

Well if there is anything we learned today it is the well known and obvious flaw of the Hub-and-Spoke transit system, especially when there is only 1 hub. If it goes down the whole network falls apart. If there is anything that has been laid bare today it is firstly the need for more hubs where lines can be terminated and passengers quickly diverted onto other lines. East Harbour and Exhibition can become this when the OL opens although this will only apply to the Lake Shore Lines. Secondly it also shows the strong need for a bypass around downtown (e.g. Midtown). The OL will help fill this role with its connections to Exhibition and East Harbour for the Lake Shore Lines, but for the other routes the Midtown line would be a far more viable bypass.

Yeah, robust secondary stations like Spadina-Front (hopefully not just Barrie line in the far future) are needed desperately.

Technically 6 out of 7 GO train lines have "connections" to the subway outside of Union, except for Lakeshore West. But the connectivity is awful at Oriole and Danforth GO, and trips don't make sense for downtown people except for maybe the Kitchener Line at Bloor / Dundas West.

 

[Jonny5]

Yeah, robust secondary stations like Spadina-Front (hopefully not just Barrie line in the far future) are needed desperately.

Technically 6 out of 7 GO train lines have "connections" to the subway outside of Union, except for Lakeshore West. But the connectivity is awful at Oriole and Danforth GO, and trips don't make sense for downtown people except for maybe the Kitchener Line at Bloor / Dundas West.

Yeah, and this also leaves you a lot of GO riders that rarely use the TTC who won't be sure where to even walk for the subway, or where or how to transfer once they get on and that will cause more passenger bottlenecks for sure.
I just thought about that and how it would be much worse for those people in the afternoon commute, as they suddenly need to learn how to get to Dundas West or Exhibition or Kipling from Union, and we all know there won't be extra TTC staff deployed to help them.

 

[lastcommodore]

I think as a temporary measure GO should build a platform on the south of Kipling on their side of the track, so LSW can be rerouted to Kipling in worst case scenario until OL is built.

Other than that, I think all lines intersect with the subway, even if slightly suboptimally at Main and Oriole

 

[transitthinker]

More GO redundancy is definitely needed, I was caught trying to take a cancelled train today and the both subway lines ended up being down. Combined with full GO trains worth of confused riders and it was a big mess, station staff did the best they could though.