GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[sixrings]

If you really look at it, it’s not like Mississauga is completely lacking transit outside of the Milton line. We still have the Transitway, Hurontario LRT (soon), Lakeshore West and Malton on the Kitchener line. There’s 3 GO train lines running to different parts of the city and now 2 of them will see all day 7 day service at their respective stations in Sauga.

Milton line just cuts through the entire city and arguably connects it better than the transit mentioned, but even then it’s not the biggest issue if we are left without it. The GO bus route 21 reroutings also helps a lot in a sense because it literally serves the Milton line stations. It’s like you have 2 technical express routes now if you just either take it in as a shuttle to the Lakeshore line and stops in between if you’re only traveling within Mississauga. Basically it’s not like the city is higher order transit deprived unlike certain other places in the GTA that desperately need anything at all.

Again I am highlighting that the place the “downtown” area of Mississauga does not have all day go train service. To get to lakeshore is quite a bit of a detour for these residents.

 

[sixrings]

No denying that… and I’d agree it should be upgraded- hell, electrified as an ultimate goal (somehow, someday). Though, when your competing with the region’s LRT, subway and GO expansions, would you, as the provincial government, prioritize Milton over, say, the YNSE? Or the Hamilton LRT? The answer isn’t as clear cut anymore.

I would be more eager to jump on the bandwagon for Milton to be a top priority if it was actually a small change that could be done quickly…

This is why I have a problem with projects like Scarborough subway extension. They cost so much money it means we have to make choices elsewhere. As a former Scarborough resident I am happy for Scarborough but everyone still pays the price for that. Then we buried for no good reason eglinton west. So that’s two projects which could have been done more affordable. and now there’s talk about extending sheppard even though a whole bunch of stats talk about how it’s just throwing good money after bad. So if financial prudence doesn’t apply in these other places why are we setting the bar so high over here. And just a reminder that Brampton is still trying to bury the hurontario line.

 

[Sunnyside]

This is why I have a problem with projects like Scarborough subway extension. They cost so much money it means we have to make choices elsewhere. As a former Scarborough resident I am happy for Scarborough but everyone still pays the price for that. Then we buried for no good reason eglinton west. So that’s two projects which could have been done more affordable. and now there’s talk about extending sheppard even though a whole bunch of stats talk about how it’s just throwing good money after bad. So if financial prudence doesn’t apply in these other places why are we setting the bar so high over here. And just a reminder that Brampton is still trying to bury the hurontario line.

Well, that’s the thing… prudence and weighting of projects is a thing, until politics comes into play. It’s the great wildcard. I’m inclined to agree with you, as it’s not just happening in Mississauga. We see projects of huge cost go forward (especially when they don’t have to) while others do not. SSE was necessary, given the crumbling SRT, but we threw money at it because of bad decision making prior. It’s a whole mess.

Unfortunately there’s also no such thing as a truly cheap transit project in the GTHA anymore. My most optimistic perspective is that the languishing parts of the GO network will be seriously beefed up with the diesels made redundant from electrification. So with every project completed, Mx starting the ones we want becomes closer to reality.

 

[sixrings]

Well, that’s the thing… prudence and weighting of projects is a thing, until politics comes into play. It’s the great wildcard. I’m inclined to agree with you, as it’s not just happening in Mississauga. We see projects of huge cost go forward (especially when they don’t have to) while others do not. SSE was necessary, given the crumbling SRT, but we threw money at it because of bad decision making prior. It’s a whole mess.

Unfortunately there’s also no such thing as a truly cheap transit project in the GTHA anymore. My most optimistic perspective is that the languishing parts of the GO network will be seriously beefed up with the diesels made redundant from electrification. So with every project completed, Mx starting the ones we want becomes closer to reality.

So we start the conversation with evidence based planning but then we admit politics come into play. Which means I wouldn’t say it’s a persecution complex. But it does make me feel that the levels of government involved dont feel pressured by Mississauga residents to build transit to get votes. That I can blame on Mississauga residents. But either way it is frustrating.

 

[crs1026]

So we start the conversation with evidence based planning but then we admit politics come into play. Which means I wouldn’t say it’s a persecution complex. But it does make me feel that the levels of government involved dont feel pressured by Mississauga residents to build transit to get votes. That I can blame on Mississauga residents. But either way it is frustrating.

You are getting closer to the heart of the issue here. Mississauga residents historically chose Mississauga as a an autocentric community, and (for many) a bedroom community at that. There has always been a transit market, but in past decades only as an adjunct to use of the auto, and in the case of Milton GO, largely as a peak hours commuting tool to reach downtown Toronto at a time of day when the roads can’t handle the demand. Their political demands for transit have been voiced through politicians whose city building vision was never based on transit as a city building tool. They may not have seen a good reason to fight for a bigger share of the transit funding pie.

Let’s suppose that Mississauga does indeed have access to its fair share of upcoming transit capital. The question becomes - what investment will achieve the largest modal share, the best energy/carbon envelope, and the best stimulus to development? I’m not sure that Milton GO really figures in that more current vision. Sure, it would be nice to have, but does it service the locations where Mississauga is focusing density and development? Does it generate the largest number of new riders and new trips? Are Mississaugans needing to get to downtown Toronto that badly? Perhaps better connectivity to employment areas within Mississauga, to the Airport, or to Lines 2 and 5 would generate more intra-Mississauga and cross-border transit ridership than connectivity to Union Station.

I’m not arguing against Milton GO, but perhaps the lack of attention to date is actually the result of sound prioritisation for past funding, and perhaps that will continue.

Milton GO 2WAD may always be the bridesmaid - for Mississauga, anyways. Intercepting drivers at Milton and getting them off the 401 and on a GO train so they don’t clog Mississauga and Toronto roads may be the most compelling business case, rather than improving transit options for Mississaugans per se.

- Paul

 

[sixrings]

You are getting closer to the heart of the issue here. Mississauga residents historically chose Mississauga as a an autocentric community, and (for many) a bedroom community at that. There has always been a transit market, but in past decades only as an adjunct to use of the auto, and in the case of Milton GO, largely as a peak hours commuting tool to reach downtown Toronto at a time of day when the roads can’t handle the demand. Their political demands for transit have been voiced through politicians whose city building vision was never based on transit as a city building tool. They may not have seen a good reason to fight for a bigger share of the transit funding pie.

Let’s suppose that Mississauga does indeed have access to its fair share of upcoming transit capital. The question becomes - what investment will achieve the largest modal share, the best energy/carbon envelope, and the best stimulus to development? I’m not sure that Milton GO really figures in that more current vision. Sure, it would be nice to have, but does it service the locations where Mississauga is focusing density and development? Does it generate the largest number of new riders and new trips? Are Mississaugans needing to get to downtown Toronto that badly? Perhaps better connectivity to employment areas within Mississauga, to the Airport, or to Lines 2 and 5 would generate more intra-Mississauga and cross-border transit ridership than connectivity to Union Station.

I’m not arguing against Milton GO, but perhaps the lack of attention to date is actually the result of sound prioritisation for past funding, and perhaps that will continue.

Milton GO 2WAD may always be the bridesmaid - for Mississauga, anyways. Intercepting drivers at Milton and getting them off the 401 and on a GO train so they don’t clog Mississauga and Toronto roads may be the most compelling business case, rather than improving transit options for Mississaugans per se.

- Paul

At some point Mississauga has to move away from the automobile. At least in the core. You should be able to live at square one area and not feel the need for a car.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

So we start the conversation with evidence based planning but then we admit politics come into play. Which means I wouldn’t say it’s a persecution complex. But it does make me feel that the levels of government involved dont feel pressured by Mississauga residents to build transit to get votes. That I can blame on Mississauga residents. But either way it is frustrating.

This is the answer. Milton is coming more among people from Milton and transit enthusiasts.

 

[sixrings]

This is the answer. Milton is coming more among people from Milton and transit enthusiasts.

Perhaps Milton is coming along better transit wise since people who move there realize it’s simply too far to travel into Toronto by car. And so they are encouraged to use transit. Where as Mississauga is just close enough you can debate driving.

Either way the mayor has to set the tone. They have to be able to see twenty years into the future. Residents are just trying to get through the day.

 

[max]

Perhaps Milton is coming along better transit wise since people who move there realize it’s simply too far to travel into Toronto by car. And so they are encouraged to use transit. Where as Mississauga is just close enough you can debate driving.

Either way the mayor has to set the tone. They have to be able to see twenty years into the future. Residents are just trying to get through the day.

Toronto seems to have had to kick in cash for their new GO stations *cough* SmartTrack *cough* so maybe Mississauga could go that route to get their GO priorities too

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Perhaps Milton is coming along better transit wise since people who move there realize it’s simply too far to travel into Toronto by car. And so they are encouraged to use transit. Where as Mississauga is just close enough you can debate driving.

Either way the mayor has to set the tone. They have to be able to see twenty years into the future. Residents are just trying to get through the day.

They've gone from nothing to a full six day system so they are. Halton Hills could learn a thing or two. I think this is just about pushing MX on paying CP. That's it. As long as MX is being cheap, that's the end of that.

I mean we saw this with the subway. The Bloor Danforth should have gone to Square One long Before Vaughan and Markham but here we are. This is a Mississauga leadership issue.

 

[sixrings]

Toronto seems to have had to kick in cash for their new GO stations *cough* SmartTrack *cough* so maybe Mississauga could go that route to get their GO priorities too

I have no problem paying my share. I’m not saying we deserve something and we shouldn’t have to pay for it. Neither am I saying we must over build like Brampton underground hurontario efforts or Scarborough’s subway over lrts. I’m saying I’m willing to pay for what it appropriate for our city.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

You are getting closer to the heart of the issue here. Mississauga residents historically chose Mississauga as a an autocentric community, and (for many) a bedroom community at that. There has always been a transit market, but in past decades only as an adjunct to use of the auto, and in the case of Milton GO, largely as a peak hours commuting tool to reach downtown Toronto at a time of day when the roads can’t handle the demand. Their political demands for transit have been voiced through politicians whose city building vision was never based on transit as a city building tool. They may not have seen a good reason to fight for a bigger share of the transit funding pie.

Let’s suppose that Mississauga does indeed have access to its fair share of upcoming transit capital. The question becomes - what investment will achieve the largest modal share, the best energy/carbon envelope, and the best stimulus to development? I’m not sure that Milton GO really figures in that more current vision. Sure, it would be nice to have, but does it service the locations where Mississauga is focusing density and development? Does it generate the largest number of new riders and new trips? Are Mississaugans needing to get to downtown Toronto that badly? Perhaps better connectivity to employment areas within Mississauga, to the Airport, or to Lines 2 and 5 would generate more intra-Mississauga and cross-border transit ridership than connectivity to Union Station.

I’m not arguing against Milton GO, but perhaps the lack of attention to date is actually the result of sound prioritisation for past funding, and perhaps that will continue.

Milton GO 2WAD may always be the bridesmaid - for Mississauga, anyways. Intercepting drivers at Milton and getting them off the 401 and on a GO train so they don’t clog Mississauga and Toronto roads may be the most compelling business case, rather than improving transit options for Mississaugans per se.

- Paul

I think the residents want to get to downtown. Hazel and her council were the issue. The residents and council are not on the same page at all.

 

[gweed123]

With respect to the Richmond Hill Line, personally I'd like to see a rail line built within the 407 ROW between the RH Line and the Barrie Line, with the idea being that Richmond Hill trains would use the Barrie Line (which just got a nice upgrade this week) until just south of the 407, where they would branch off.

Yes that would make Old Cummer and Oriole stations redundant, but the connectivity on the Barrie Line to other transit options is far superior anyway, especially once the Lansdowne-Bloor and Caledonia stations are built.

 

[11th]

With respect to the Richmond Hill Line, personally I'd like to see a rail line built within the 407 ROW between the RH Line and the Barrie Line, with the idea being that Richmond Hill trains would use the Barrie Line (which just got a nice upgrade this week) until just south of the 407, where they would branch off.

Yes that would make Old Cummer and Oriole stations redundant, but the connectivity on the Barrie Line to other transit options is far superior anyway, especially once the Lansdowne-Bloor and Caledonia stations are built.

Richmond Hill line can also have good connectivity if it is integrated with a northern extension of Ontario Line.

 

[anb]

Milton can actually be turned into a transit centric town if the vision was ever there and if there was a council that could advocate for it. The location for the town is nicely centralized for the west end of the GTA and getting to destinations in all 4 directions feels like an equal distance from one another. If there was a vision for Milton to be a transfer point for the region just like what Sq One is for mostly the entire GTA for regional transit, then the push for all day Milton line service would be an even higher priority.

Its a shame that this feels fantasied for now, but that returning Milton-Oakville service does have you thinking if a possibility of it ever happening. If all day Milton trains become a thing on the entire line, then they would try to push bus connections to go further west anyways like Guelph, Waterloo, maybe even Hamilton as well.