EastYorkTTCFan
Senior Member
Via rail already operates over all of those routes. Also I don't really see go transit wanting to go outside of the province of Ontario.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Urban Sky
Senior Member
As long as they are a provincially regulated railroad, they can’t (even if they wanted) and in the case of Sudbury-Ottawa, there is quite a considerable gap without any more tracks left…
lenaitch
Senior Member
Not counting that they are not federally regulated and cannot cross provincial boundaries. Even to go to some of the places listed in Ontario would require a change of enabling legislation.
tsm1072
Active Member
I could be wrong, but I think he meant to run a replacement Bus service, GO has a large fleet of buses and could definitely run some more intercity trips. I'm fairly sure GO already runs some of those routes and I don't think they would want to go further West than Waterloo and further East than Peterborough.
duffo
Active Member
GO needs to finally get some bus service in the following corridors:
- Hamilton <-> Cambridge <-> K-W
- Hamilton <-> Guelph
- Brampton <-> Richmond Hill
- Newmarket <-> Uxbridge <-> Port Perry
- Barrie <-> Wasaga Beach (seasonal)
UrbanJon
New Member
I think it is important to solve the issue of sharing with freight. Going through Guelph does no good and only kicks the can of a real solution to this problem down the road. Honestly, people say that the proposed route would be good for ridership between Guelph and Cambridge, but for that, it should just be a bus.
It is really for these reasons that, although we have a feasibility study released, this inferior option will never actually see the light of day, despite the fact that some people want it.
I am just upset that we wasted money on a study for this pie-in-the-sky fantasy. A hyperloop study would have done just as much good.
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crs1026
Superstar
The key to “sharing with freight” is to not naysay the realities of what it takes to operate freight, given 14,000 foot freight trains running when they have to run.
The Milton line is the best example of this. The existing track cannot accommodate further GO encroachment, and CP won’t allow it.
Does that mean GO servive can’t be improved? Heck no. The key is to add track, and that means - bring money.
- Paul
UrbanJon
New Member
This is very true. We shouldn't just go for a convoluted roundabout route because we are too afraid to tackle issues head on.
I also think it is important to let busses do the job they were meant for. A city like Cambridge probably doesn't need GO trains. For the less than ideal service the report proposes, it would be much better to just shuttle riders to Guelph on busses to catch the train.
canarob
Senior Member
I can see there being demand for gradual westward expansion of GO bus service. Routes such as Stratford-KW or even London-Woodstock-Brantford will have significant demand in coming years, I would think, with planned population growth.
tmlittle
Active Member
I think it's also unfair to dismiss the Fergus sub in of itself. A GO service would capture any (existing or possible) passengers who currently have to go KW/Cambridge->Aberfoyle->Guelph with a transfer at Aberfoyle, bringing more passengers back onto the rail system and away from motor coaches along the 401 that can get stuck in traffic, especially at rush hours. It would also complete a KW-Cambridge-Guelph triangle of rail services with a completed ION Line 1, and you'd have a pretty seamless transfer. Arguing that passengers won't want to transfer dismisses the fact that existing passengers already have to transfer either at Aberfoyle or in Mississauga, and that's without the existing ION connection. This would go a long way in helping GO (especially post-Greyhound) untangle its far western services and restructure them so they aren't just an attempt to serve 3 distinct cities (K-W-C) with one main bus route (the 25) which has to experience the brunt of both downtown Kitchener and 401 traffic.
The insistence on certain priorities of a single-seat ride to Union once again feels like a consistent bias peculiar to UrbanToronto that isn't in keeping with the repeated Metrolinx studies around the Kitchener line corridor and where passengers actually want to go, as well as latent demand from potential passenger trips left unfulfilled -- much like Metrolinx projected that there was significant off-peak ridership demand at Kitchener and this was borne out in practice. The shutdown of Greyhound has eliminated the one direct connection which existed between KWC and Guelph despite the three being relative neighbours, without the massive sidestep of Aberfoyle. The irony is that even amongst the likes of local news commenters (many of whom are bitterly anti-ION), this news seems to have been received neutrally to positively, and the strongest backlash has been in UrbanToronto and certain railfan Facebook groups, who dismiss the ability for the Fergus sub to potentially carry passengers again, or the utility of a Cambridge-Guelph connection that isn't simply a bridge to get to Toronto. Most commuters in the area are not and will not be heading to Toronto -- just as there are many Kitchener-Cambridge and Kitchener-Guelph commuters there are also many Cambridge-Guelph commuters and vice versa, and most people's commuting patterns are intercity or less, not inter-regional and an hour long or more. For regional rather than inter-regional travellers this isn't "a jog to the left", it helps connect the area. A service like this would alleviate parking demand at Milton, provide the inherent public good of a direct Cambridge-Guelph connection, support ION ridership growth in Cambridge, further decouple intercity transit west of Toronto from the highway system, and support the rebuilding of the Ontario rail network while also preserving the Fergus sub from potential abandonment and redevelopment in the way that's happened with so many branch lines. And it would all be for the price the Region of Waterloo just spent on a new bus garage.
The insistence on certain priorities of a single-seat ride to Union once again feels like a consistent bias peculiar to UrbanToronto that isn't in keeping with the repeated Metrolinx studies around the Kitchener line corridor and where passengers actually want to go, as well as latent demand from potential passenger trips left unfulfilled -- much like Metrolinx projected that there was significant off-peak ridership demand at Kitchener and this was borne out in practice. The shutdown of Greyhound has eliminated the one direct connection which existed between KWC and Guelph despite the three being relative neighbours, without the massive sidestep of Aberfoyle. The irony is that even amongst the likes of local news commenters (many of whom are bitterly anti-ION), this news seems to have been received neutrally to positively, and the strongest backlash has been in UrbanToronto and certain railfan Facebook groups, who dismiss the ability for the Fergus sub to potentially carry passengers again, or the utility of a Cambridge-Guelph connection that isn't simply a bridge to get to Toronto. Most commuters in the area are not and will not be heading to Toronto -- just as there are many Kitchener-Cambridge and Kitchener-Guelph commuters there are also many Cambridge-Guelph commuters and vice versa, and most people's commuting patterns are intercity or less, not inter-regional and an hour long or more. For regional rather than inter-regional travellers this isn't "a jog to the left", it helps connect the area. A service like this would alleviate parking demand at Milton, provide the inherent public good of a direct Cambridge-Guelph connection, support ION ridership growth in Cambridge, further decouple intercity transit west of Toronto from the highway system, and support the rebuilding of the Ontario rail network while also preserving the Fergus sub from potential abandonment and redevelopment in the way that's happened with so many branch lines. And it would all be for the price the Region of Waterloo just spent on a new bus garage.
afransen
Senior Member
Well, some of those routes are already served by VIA. I don't see much point in GO duplicating service.
ARG1
Senior Member
Go should definitely take over some of these routes because Via often enough does not have enough capacity to meet the demand, especially during reading week. If you're travelling from Ottawa to Toronto, you better order those Via tickets 2 months early because otherwise you're stuck with Greyhound (or I guess absolutely nothing now since they're gone). Trust me, I know from experience.
tsm1072
Active Member
I don't know, it seems like that demand is better filled by companies like Megabus, and charter busses for high demand times. GO isn't really tailored for the longer trips.
Northern Light
Superstar
I can agree with a great deal here; though I hasten to add, outside of peak, Mx's stated intentions are not to run service to KW anymore frequently than hourly.
That's not the most robust level of service for building a local transit-culture.
Worth noting, Mx would have the option (based on track ownership) of running a K-W - Guelph shuttle service (raising frequency to .....15 minutes??} which might make this option a good deal more attractive/useful.
Though, arguably, ION phase 2 might serve that need (Cambridge-KW) better.
ARG1
Senior Member
Well if they're willing to take it on, no problem. When I say GO should take over these bus routes, I generally mean I think it might makes sense for GO to start investing into a long distance network that is separate from the existing GO network, like a different service type with its own fare structure sort of competing with Via. While it might be weird trying to compete with a federal service, the business case of GO RER expects GO RER to actually turn a profit, and assuming that's true, that could leave the with extra funding that could have the potential to start working on a proper intercity rail network and back it up with actual funding, unlike Via that has absolutely nothing other than empty promises and proposals from the government, endless budget cuts, and overall a lot of neglect.