GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[TOareaFan]

Looking at historical aerials, most of south Mississauga was there before GO even existed... how is that GO's fault?

True....as were most (all) of the places that GO serves.........GO can't (IMO) be blamed for sprawl when, in fact, they have never been able to choose their own routes/lines as they have sorta force-fitted their service to the available, existing, tracks and the available time on those tracks.

 

[SunriseChampion]

And if only more people could ditch their cars and instead bike and take transit. It's really not as hard as it's made out to be, even in the suburbs.

No, it really isn't.

I live in rural North Pickering and would take a Durham Transit bus to and from Pickering Station to get to George Brown College last year. I had to walk along a rural highway to get to the nearest bus stop. It didn't kill me and only added half an hour to my one-way travel time which, at that point, didn't faze me as I was already wasting time commuting so far to school.

I'd make a wager though that if our climate was warmer, transit ridership in the suburbs would be higher, all other variables being the same.

 

[lordmandeep]

if Toronto was warmer, it would be the size of LA by now...

 

[Second_in_pie]

If Canada was warmer, we wouldn't have any Polar Bears! :O

I mostly agree with the above statement though.

 

[doady]

Agreed. So GO Transit can't possibly harm local transit. They serve different markets.

Are you blind or something? Perhaps you should read what I have said instead of cherry-picking what you want to read.

Transit cannot encourage car ownership. Land use plans which do not support transit, poor transit options, and infrastructure which moves cars promotes car use. If MT could get people from their home to all the places they go efficiently in terms of time and cost then people wouldn't need their car.

And exactly how is MT supposed to provide efficient transit service when the GO stations cause so much congestion and delay the buses, which also causes reductions in frequency and increases in overcrowding?

Not mention that the GO parking lots reduce the population density which reduces the efficiency of transit further, especially if the station is located on a major local transit corridor. The wide roads that GO stations require do not exactly encourage walking either (and further reduce densities), so transit ridership is further reduced.

If you expect me to believe that there is a significant number of people who have bought cars simply to go to the GO station when a reasonable transit option was available I will say I am almost certain you are wrong.

I never said that. I merely said that GO discourages all forms of transport in the suburbs except cars. You just need to look at their fare policy and the location and design of their stations for evidence of this. And all the other effects that GO has had that I mentioned above.

People downtown often walk to grocery stores, most people in Mississauga will not. Nothing GO Transit does will change this. This means a car is in the garage already so the choice is about driving it downtown or driving it to the GO station.

So basically you saying that local transit is useless in the suburbs and improving it is fruitless because people in the suburbs already own cars and will use them anyways. So GO Transit expansion is all that's needed for Mississauga because it caters to their car-dependent lifestyle? I bet that even most people in Mississauga would rather just be able to leave their car at home.

Looking at historical aerials, most of south Mississauga was there before GO even existed... how is that GO's fault?

GO Transit-style commuter rail service was provided in that Lakeshore corridor before GO existed.

 

[EnviroTO]

Are you blind or something? Perhaps you should read what I have said instead of cherry-picking what you want to read.

I quoted everything you wrote in that paragraph.

And exactly how is MT supposed to provide efficient transit service when the GO stations cause so much congestion and delay the buses, which also causes reductions in frequency and increases in overcrowding?

Bus lanes. Mississauga is in charge of determining how many lanes cars get, whether or not roads are one way or two way, determining whether or not there are bike lanes, and whether or not there are bus lanes. If a Mississauga Transit bus is stuck in traffic it is because Mississauga hasn't gotten around to doing anything about it.

Not mention that the GO parking lots reduce the population density which reduces the efficiency of transit further, especially if the station is located on a major local transit corridor. The wide roads that GO stations require do not exactly encourage walking either (and further reduce densities), so transit ridership is further reduced.

GO provides large parking lots where land is cheap and there is low density. It doesn't buy up density and reduce it to parking lots. It provides smaller parking lots or garages where land is at a premium. GO doesn't build wide roads or any roads for that matter. Mississauga builds wide roads. You keep saying "transit ridership is reduced" by GO service. Where is an example of a route which had good ridership before GO service and poor ridership afterwards?

I never said that.

Check again. You said it encourages car ownership. Encouraging ownership means pushing people to buy a car. If they already have cars encouraging car ownership would have little effect.

I merely said that GO discourages all forms of transport in the suburbs except cars.

So you are saying GO discourages the use of trains and buses by running a train and bus system? How does that make any sense? We discourage you from using trains and buses so hop onboard our trains and buses???

You just need to look at their fare policy and the location and design of their stations for evidence of this. And all the other effects that GO has had that I mentioned above.

The location of their stations is along the railway tracks at regular intervals. The only place GO can realistically locate their stations is where the railway tracks are. Land use planning is done by local city councils so if there is no density near the railway tracks that is not the fault of GO.

So basically you saying that local transit is useless in the suburbs and improving it is fruitless because people in the suburbs already own cars and will use them anyways. So GO Transit expansion is all that's needed for Mississauga because it caters to their car-dependent lifestyle? I bet that even most people in Mississauga would rather just be able to leave their car at home.

Good transit can only affordably exist where land use planning provides density along local transit corridors and high ridership is most likely in places where people walk to the store, walk to the coffee shop, etc. GO did not design Mississauga. GO is responding to the demands of its customers, not creating the demands of its customers. It is up to Mississauga to improve local transit, create bus lanes, design urban neighbourhoods, etc. GO has nothing to do with all that.

GO has parking spaces where land is cheap (just like every other business) because their customers have chosen to drive a car. The lots are filling up because those people DIDN'T want to take the local transit service that MT provided. GO didn't provide that local transit service... MT did. If the local transit service sucks or takes an indirect route it is not because of GO. How does GO have anything to do with people not riding MT?

 

[Swamp Thing]

Apropos of nothing much, I just received this from GO Transit:

At GO Transit we take parking and your safety seriously, and as a result we ask that you please park in designated spots only.
We would like to remind you that if you park in an emergency access route, block others with your car, or limit access to accessible parking spaces, your car may be towed.
We suggest alternatives ways of getting to your station, such as carpooling, taking local transit, cycling, or walking if this is possible. We will continue to add more parking spots at stations across our system, including multi-level parking structures at key locations. As always, thank you for practising safe parking.

This message was sent on: 10/8/2009 14:39

Please do not reply to this email. This is an outgoing message only. To unsubscribe, go to:
http://enews-gotransit.com/unsubscribe.aspx

 

[Second_in_pie]

I agree, it's ridiculous to argue that Go encourages car ownership or hurts local transit. Unless you believe that people want to ride a bus for what, like 3 hours from Medowvale to Kipling Station, then take a 30 minute subway ride to downtown, then there's a serious flaw to the plan. Go completes the system by giving people a long-distance option. This means that there's absolutely no competition locally from Go.

In terms of "encouraging car use" by making big parking lots, I really don't see how that works. It's either take the Go train, take a 2 hour minimum transit trip to get downtown, or take your car and get stuck in rush hour for 1-1½ hours, depending on where you are. Local transit is in no way competitive or catering to the same market as Go. In fact, they compliment eachother. Just go to Unionville Go station (I'm sure there are other examples in the system, but I know Unionville,) at the parade of busses that take people on the last leg of the trip. Even now, you in no way have to take your car to the Go station. At Unionville alone, there's like 6 or 7 local busses that service the station, with more and more coming.

And for encouraging urban sprawl and low density, I'm sort of mixed about that. Obviously, the cities/regions/towns have some fault there, but the main reason density isn't springing up is because Go is a commuter service currently. The system is Union-centric and basically only operates at rush hour. Go/Metrolinx are working towards a regional rail system, which would essentially be a long distance metro, RER service. Once this starts happening (probably starting around 30 minute frequencies,) I assure you that people will be scrambling over eachother to develop around Go stations.
All day, Regional Rail service will also have an impact of integrating with public transit. Right now, it really makes no sense to integrate full-time local routes with Go, because the stations don't get service all day. Once they do, people can much more easily move around the region by transit. That means they can either drive or take local transit to their station, take a quick Go train to their destination, then take a bus or even Subway or LRT to their final destination.

 

[EnviroTO]

Obviously, the cities/regions/towns have some fault there, but the main reason density isn't springing up is because Go is a commuter service currently.

Whether or not GO is a commuter service doesn't seem relevant to the lack of density. There are places in the city with density and no subway and many places with a subway without density. Travel to work is for most people a trip they make only during rush hour. The rest of their lives is what is going to determine where they choose to live (i.e. wanting space, wanting detached homes, wanting a car, wanting to live in a budget, and wanting a certain lifestyle). Where those needs are met is determined by land use planning.

 

[lordmandeep]

GO is quite fast considering especially at rush hour.

I can leave Union at 4:45 and be at home at 5:40 in the edge of Northern Brampton over 50km away.


Driving could take much much longer and cost me a ton more.

 

[kettal]

And for encouraging urban sprawl and low density, I'm sort of mixed about that. Obviously, the cities/regions/towns have some fault there, but the main reason density isn't springing up is because Go is a commuter service currently.

Actually it's because areas surrounding rail lands are still very industrial. Remember, before GO brought passenger service to these lines, they were used exclusively for hauling raw and manufactured material. Most still do.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Final weekend for GO service to Niagara
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/650251
October 08, 2009
Daniel Nolan
The Hamilton Spectator
NIAGARA FALLS - Niagara’s GO Train experiment ends Thanksgiving Day, but it could see future runs down the track.

Transportation Minister Jim Bradley, who represents St. Catharines, and GO Transit officials were pleased at the number of passengers who used the weekend service after it began June 27.

“GO Transit was pleasantly surprised with the large number of customers who chose to use the GO Train this summer when travelling between Toronto and Niagara Falls,†Gary McNeil, managing director of GO Transit and executive vice-president of Metrolinx, said today.

According to GO Transit, more than 40,000 travellers have taken the Toronto-Niagara Falls train, and back, since the service began.

GO said it averaged about 1,500 people per day. It estimated before the service began that it would average 500 passengers a day.

Four trains run daily in each direction this Saturday, Sunday and the holiday Monday. The two-hour trip does not have a stop in Hamilton. Stops include downtown Toronto, Port Credit, Oakville, Burlington, and the St. Catharines and Niagara Falls VIA Rail stations.

An adult return ticket from Toronto to Niagara Falls cost $15.90 and families and groups travelling to or from Niagara Falls had the option of staying overnight on a group pass.

Transportation Minister Jim Bradley, who represents St. Catharines, believed the summertime train helped tourism in the region in the face of the recession.

"Weekend GO rail service is a great boost for Niagara region’s travel and hospitality industry,†the minister said. “It brings more tourist dollars to the area and increases employment.â€

He did not say if GO Transit would run the train again next year, but said it will be reviewed after the Thanksgiving holiday. Niagara Falls Mayor Ted Salci has said he would like to see the weekend service made permanent.

GO Transit began weekday and weekend bus service Sept. 5 between Niagara Falls and the Burlington GO station to connect with the GO train to Union Station. It includes stops in St. Catharines, Grimsby and Stoney Creek.

Bus fares are the same as the train fares.

dnolan@thespec.com
905-526-3351

 

[waterloowarrior]

GO Bus Service Coming To Kitchener-Waterloo And Cambridge
http://www.news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2...ming-to-kitchener-waterloo-and-cambridge.html
October 8, 2009 2:37 PM

McGuinty Government Supporting More Green Transportation Options
Starting on October 31, residents and commuters will be able to catch the GO Bus between Kitchener-Waterloo and Mississauga with stops in Cambridge, Milton and Aberfoyle.

Buses will run on weekdays to and from Mississauga's Square One Mall with 11 eastbound trips and 12 westbound trips. Stops in Southwestern Ontario will include Wilfrid Laurier University, the University of Waterloo and downtown Kitchener.

In addition, two trips in each direction will stop at the Milton GO Station to connect with peak-period GO Train service to and from Union Station. There will also be limited weekend service.

In February, the governments of Canada and Ontario committed $2.5 million in funding to build four park and ride lots along the new bus service route. The first of these lots will be located at the Regional Road 25 and Highway 401 interchange in Milton and will be open on the first day of GO Bus service to Kitchener-Waterloo and Cambridge. GO Transit is currently determining the location of the remaining three locations along the Highway 401 and Highway 8 corridor in the Cambridge/Kitchener-Waterloo area. Funding for these facilities is part of the GO Transit Improvement Program.


and from SSP

I don't have a full schedule to offer you but i can tell you that there are two different trips leaving from University of waterloo.

First goes to Milton to meet the train and the other goes to SQ1.

Here is an example

University of Waterloo 5.40
W.Laurier Uni 5.43
Kitchener Bus Terminal 5.53
Cambridge smart centre 6.08
Aberfoyle GO 6.25
Milton hwy 25 6.42
Square One 7.10



University of Waterloo 5.55
W.Laurier Uni 5.58
Kitchener Bus Terminal 6.08
Cambridge smart centre 6.23
Aberfoyle GO 6.40
Milton hwy 25 7.00
Milton GO 7.10 Meet train



Aberfoyle looks like the station to connect with the Guelph bus or bus to N.Mississauga.

Square one is the main hub, from there you can connect to Union, Hamilton, Bramalea, York U etc....

 

[nfitz]

Hmm, depart Kitchener terminal at 6:08 AM; arrive Union 8:20 AM ...

I guess Greyhound won't be complaining ... their 6:05 bus arrives at Dundas/Bay at 7:30 AM.

 

[TOareaFan]

Final weekend for GO service to Niagara
http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/650251
October 08, 2009
Daniel Nolan
The Hamilton Spectator
NIAGARA FALLS - Niagara’s GO Train experiment ends Thanksgiving Day, but it could see future runs down the track.

Transportation Minister Jim Bradley, who represents St. Catharines, and GO Transit officials were pleased at the number of passengers who used the weekend service after it began June 27.

“GO Transit was pleasantly surprised with the large number of customers who chose to use the GO Train this summer when travelling between Toronto and Niagara Falls,” Gary McNeil, managing director of GO Transit and executive vice-president of Metrolinx, said today.

According to GO Transit, more than 40,000 travellers have taken the Toronto-Niagara Falls train, and back, since the service began.

GO said it averaged about 1,500 people per day. It estimated before the service began that it would average 500 passengers a day.

.

dnolan@thespec.com
905-526-3351

What this success points out, to me, is people's preference to trains over buses and the success of weekend service to this popular tourist attraction should really be having GO saying...."....mmm is it right that we have all these trains parked on the weekend on all of our lines" ....Toronto itself is a very big tourist attraction and is the entertainment/fun hub for the whole region. Yet we have established GO lines that go to it but only during the week.....instead of shutting down the limited service lines (Barrie, Milton, Georgetown, etc) on the weekend....perhaps they should make the service levels the same on Saturday on Sunday (or even more...perhaps there is less freight movement on the weekend freeing up space) so that people getting from the burbs to the fun in Toronto would have an option of a train....an option that they might not consider the bus matching.