GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[hw621]

multiple delays and cancellation on Stouffville line today. Reliability is in question...

 

[Admiral Beez]

multiple delays and cancellation on Stouffville line today. Reliability is in question...

Hmmm... I'm sitting here at my office near Port Credit Stn thinking it might be best to take the train home and leave the car in the garage until Monday.

But not if the eastbound Lakeshore West trains are also delayed? Seems to be okay http://gotracker.ca/gotracker/web/

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

There is no convenient transfer at Malton for them.....but even if there were, it would not change the point I was making........there is a growing number of people riding the kitchener trains taking up more room per person because their luggage situation does not fit well within a GO train.

Kitchener Pearson Express!

/s

 

[KevinT]

Kitchener Pearson Express!

Hey, a good use for the Nippon-Sharyos when the UP gets electrified!

 

[lenaitch]

Which was a poor decision by council back in the 90’s. If I was planning a station, I’d build it near the west Highway 35 overpass over the right of way. Any new rail through the urban centre will require expropriation.

I don’t think trains will be able to go downtown again but I think a line that runs along the south side of the urban built up area that takes advantages of the existing overpasses along Highway 35 (like the east side) should be protected. But that won’t happen for at least 20 years. There are more important projects (like RER) along the corridor to focus on.

I lived in Lindsay for a year and biked many of the old rights of way.

It's pretty hard to fault a council to hold land, either by ownership or zoning, for decades in hopes of a future that likely wasn't even speculated back in the 90s let alone unplanned now.

 

[TOareaFan]

There isn't a convenient transfer at Malton, but maybe the answer is that there should be. Going from Malton to Pearson via Weston is an incredibly roundabout route.

I have long advocated the connection of Malton to the airport...but no one in my post/discussion this morning was going from Malton to Pearson via Weston. I simply noted that more and more on the Kitchener trains we see people with luggage getting off at Weston to go to Pearson.....most of those people are getting on at Brampton or points west.

Brampton Transit's route 115 Airport Express operates Bramalea Terminal - (just outside) Bramalea Station - (just outside) Malton Station - Pearson Terminal 1. Although it would probably add 5 minutes to the trip time, maybe the bus should actually go into the bus terminal at Bramalea or Malton, with a timed connection from eastbound trains, so people stop taking the ridiculous route via Weston. People with luggage will definitely be dissuaded by the current transfers which both include a decent walk in pedestrian-hostile areas.

I have used the 115 a couple of times....not likely to do it again....it is an extremely sub-par airport transit experience that is likely best reserved for daily travellers (ie workers at the airport) who's frequeny of use and budget require finding the lowest cost way to get to the airport.

Between the two stations, my preference would be for Bramalea, given that it has important bus connections such as GO Route 30 from Kitchener and Route 48 from Guelph/Meadowvale. It would also siphon off the riders at the busiest station, rather than after.

the 115 is already a tediously slow way of getting to/from the airport....having it divert off of Bramalea Road into the GO station would only make it worse.

 

[reaperexpress]

I have long advocated the connection of Malton to the airport...but no one in my post/discussion this morning was going from Malton to Pearson via Weston. I simply noted that more and more on the Kitchener trains we see people with luggage getting off at Weston to go to Pearson.....most of those people are getting on at Brampton or points west.

I said they travelled from Malton to Pearson via Weston, not that they necessarily started at Malton. All the trains from Brampton or points west which stop at Weston also stop at Malton along the way.

I have used the 115 a couple of times....not likely to do it again....it is an extremely sub-par airport transit experience that is likely best reserved for daily travellers (ie workers at the airport) who's frequeny of use and budget require finding the lowest cost way to get to the airport.

the 115 is already a tediously slow way of getting to/from the airport....having it divert off of Bramalea Road into the GO station would only make it worse.

Well the frequency issue doesn't apply if the departures are timed according to GO Train arrivals. The route currently operates at a similar frequency to GO train service, so it wouldn't take that much adjustment.

And yes, obviously diverting into either of the GO stations will make a tedious route even more tedious, but it may be worth the inconvenience to Bramalea Terminal passengers given the benefit to potential new Bramalea Stn/Malton passengers. Despite being a relatively slow route, either option is still faster than backtracking on UP Express.

Here's how the travel times would compare for the two services with route 115 entering into Bramalea Station, versus Malton Station

Bramalea Station Option (Bramalea to Pearson T1 travel time):
UP Express (existing):
18 minutes on the GO train to Weston
7.5 minute average wait
11 minutes on UP Express to Pearson
Total=36.5 minutes

Route 115 Airport Express connecting directly at Bramalea:
10-minute timed transfer
25 minutes on Route 115 to Pearson (assumed 2 min longer than current)
Total=35 minutes (advantage = 1.5 minutes)

Malton Station Option (Malton to Pearson T1 travel time):
UP Express (existing):
12 minutes on the GO Train to Weston
7.5 minute average wait
11 minutes on UP Express to Pearson
Total=30.5 minutes

Route 115 Airport express connecting directly at Malton:
10-minute timed transfer
13 minutes on Route 115 to Pearson (assumed 2 min longer than current)
Total=23 minutes (advantage = 7.5 minutes)

So the Malton option would be considerably faster for passengers transferring from the train. But the Bramalea option would be considerably faster for passengers who were at Bramalea anyway (Bramalea is the busiest station and outside of peak periods bus connections from Kitchener and some from Guelph arrive there). Deciding between the two options would take more analysis than either of us armchair-planners have the resources for, but I was highlighting the connectivity the advantages of the Bramalea option.

 

[TOareaFan]

^if ppl want a fast(ish) connection from Malton to Pearson we should be pushing for a quick extension of the 505 once it starts serving Malton later this year.

Leave the 115 as it is.

 

[Streety McCarface]

There isn't a convenient transfer at Malton, but maybe the answer is that there should be. Going from Malton to Pearson via Weston is an incredibly roundabout route.

Brampton Transit's route 115 Airport Express operates Bramalea Terminal - (just outside) Bramalea Station - (just outside) Malton Station - Pearson Terminal 1. Although it would probably add 5 minutes to the trip time, maybe the bus should actually go into the bus terminal at Bramalea or Malton, with a timed connection from eastbound trains, so people stop taking the ridiculous route via Weston. People with luggage will definitely be dissuaded by the current transfers which both include a decent walk in pedestrian-hostile areas.

Between the two stations, my preference would be for Bramalea, given that it has important bus connections such as GO Route 30 from Kitchener and Route 48 from Guelph/Meadowvale. It would also siphon off the riders at the busiest station, rather than after.

Agreed that it should be at Bramalea, because people from Kitchener, Guelph, Acton, Georgetown, etc that take the express train can actually make the connection.

 

[MisterF]

With news like this, I can tell GO is preparing for an eventual extension to Uxbridge. But how will the west side platform connect with the parking? They’ll have to build an above ground walkway over the layover and the tracks to connect. I don’t see the parking area being relocated.

I one day hope to see GO trains running to Lindsay. I know this isn’t even on the books, but for such a strong railway city history, I hope to see trains once again coming into Lindsay.

Which was a poor decision by council back in the 90’s. If I was planning a station, I’d build it near the west Highway 35 overpass over the right of way. Any new rail through the urban centre will require expropriation.

I don’t think trains will be able to go downtown again but I think a line that runs along the south side of the urban built up area that takes advantages of the existing overpasses along Highway 35 (like the east side) should be protected. But that won’t happen for at least 20 years. There are more important projects (like RER) along the corridor to focus on.

I lived in Lindsay for a year and biked many of the old rights of way.

Lindsay has to be pretty far off the radar for rail investment. It has fewer than 20,000 people, which makes it a dime a dozen in terms of towns that lack rail service in the Windsor-Quebec Corridor. Larger urban centres like Peterborough, Sherbrooke and Trois-Rivieres have to be higher priorities. That being said, if commuter service is ever brought back to Lindsay, another option is to use the former GB&S line that goes south from Lindsay to Dranoel. If Via's HFR proposal ever gets built, that would mean less than 30 km of new track to serve Lindsay, which is less than you'd have to build from Uxbridge. Plus that line could continue all the way downtown, potentially terminating at the King and Lindsay Streets area. Mind you, that would mean building tracks on what is now a riverfront trail, so a more likely scenario would be a station on the edge of town around Logie Street. While it would be a longer distance from Toronto to Lindsay than the Uxbridge route, potentially faster speeds along a rebuilt Via HFR line means it might be just as fast.

 

[dowlingm]

Apart from anything else, Lindsay is not part of places to grow. Neither is Uxbridge if I read the map correctly. Lincolnville is as far as it should go in that direction.
http://placestogrow.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=430&Itemid=14

CORRECTION: I misread the map and didn't locate Lindsay's purple blob correctly so it is part of PTG.

 

[innsertnamehere]

it very much is in the growth plan coverage area. Most of south-central ontario is. The coverage area is from Waterloo to Brighton and Fort Erie to Penetanguishene.

 

[crs1026]

it very much is in the growth plan coverage area. Most of south-central ontario is. The coverage area is from Waterloo to Brighton and Fort Erie to Penetanguishene.

There are two competing thoughts here. One is to say, we are building for growth within the Greenbelt area by adding density throughout that area. It makes sense to build transit within this area because density demands it. The other is to say, once the area in the Greenbelt is comfortably full (a very nebulous term that may mean different things to different people) we will start allowing density outside the Greenbelt and we will connect that density to the area inside the Greenbelt by building transit connections between the two. The former is sensible but the latter is economically unwise - the network would be extensive and expensive.

Small towns outside the Greenbelt will naturally grow, but we need to be aggressive in curtailing development that consumes farmland and that encourages low-density suburbs beyond the Greenbelt. That means saying "No" to communities beyond the Greenbelt when they aspire to developing as satellite bedroom communities for the GTA.

The Peterborough GO train idea makes sense as a regional service to an established community that is a recognized growth area, but only the first 40 kms from Union Station make sense as a "commuter" service. Lindsay is beyond the greenbelt and should not be encouraged, or invested in, as a bedroom community to the GTA.

The map in the PTG document does imply that there is a growth plan for a large area outside the Greenbelt. I hope that does not imply building bigger towns out there. Lindsay should not be a commuter line destination.

- Paul

 

[Leo_Chan]

I just wanted to say that today I saw my first sighting of someone taking the GO train and not getting off at Union. They went on at Richmond Hill (might be Gormley) and got off at Langstaff.

I don’t know whether or not this is common [for the Richmond Hill Line in particular].

 

[Fritter]

They went on at Richmond Hill (might be Gormley) and got off at Langstaff.

Oriole was popular too for people getting off. The nearby hospital I think was a popular destination.