steveintoronto
Superstar
F
First time we've agreed. Ditto TIFF closing King Street.
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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)
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DonValleyRainbow
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I just long for the day when GO gets their new rolling stock, and can do short train-bus service for any routes necessitating the DVP, Gardiner & Lake Shore.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Reposted pic from UT's own prior article on it:
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2014/09/new-go-bus-terminal-slated-massive-45-141-bay-development
What I find of interest beyond the much better positioning of the bus terminal is the "skypark".
Not mentioned in the UT article is the need for dedicated ramps from Gardiner. Don't know if that is supplementary to present approval or not.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
There is no dedicated ramps to/from the Gardiner for the terminal.
AoD
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TOareaFan
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DonValleyRainbow
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LNahid2000
Senior Member
You pretty much wrote this exact post last marathon. The marathon probably brings far more money into the city than a few hundred people on a bus on a Sunday morning, so I fully support the marathon even though I'm not a runner.
steveintoronto
Superstar
interchange42, Sep 2, 2014
In the event, there are still references being made to this, will qualify when I get a chance to dig further later.
TOareaFan
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I tend to agree....but it does seem we have a lot of these.....not sure how it works in other cities but just a "feel" that we have a lot of them
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
I think its a great idea to 1) remind people there are alternatives to driving 2) make people jealous of trains when they are stuck in bad traffic
I'm glad that these new highway signs will have both the GO train times, and the UP Express times where relevant.
Momin
Senior Member
Megaton327
Senior Member
I'd like to hear anyone suggest a serious alternative.
The argument I most often hear is "Park and ride commuters should take local transit, bike, or walk instead! Let's charge a high parking fee so that fewer people drive to the GO station!" No, that's not what's going to happen; if you disincentivize parking at GO stations, most of those people will probably stop taking GO altogether and just drive downtown, which our roads simply don't have the capacity to support. I often then hear the rebuttal "who cares, let them get stuck in traffic!", but there are buses and streetcars that use the roads too, so disincentivizing GO parking will have serious negative effects on the whole region--plus, with less ridership and less fare revenue, there won't be much reason to expand and improve GO service.
Personally, for going downtown, I prefer to drive to my GO station and park there. Local transit comes very close to my home, but the bus takes a little over 10 minutes midday and about 20 minutes at peak vs 5 minutes either midday or peak by car to get to or from the station. Midday the bus comes hourly, there's no evening service and I believe no weekend service either, it doesn't connect with the GO bus schedule, and coming home in the evenings from the train I've waited anywhere from 5 to 20 minutes for the bus to even leave the GO station, which is absurd, so YRT is a rare thing for me. Cycling isn't feasible for me due to the extremely hilly terrain in the area, and the station is about a half hour walk, similarly not something I'm inclined towards 11.5/12 months of the year.
Also, I drive an Electric Vehicle, and there is at least one place downtown that offers completely free EV parking and charging in their otherwise paid parking garage, and many buildings right in the core have free charging with paid parking, so the case for me to drive downtown (plus one-person use of HOV lanes with my green plates) is much stronger than most. If they were to start charging even $1 for parking I'd most likely just drive--even now I drive a good percentage of the time since the Barrie line trains have such a limited schedule.
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smably
Senior Member
Hey, I'd be happy if local transit users stopped subsidizing parking for those who drive. I don't see the need for punitive parking fees, but right now I, as someone who's never parked at a GO station in my life, have to pay the cost of building and maintaining massive amounts of parking for people who do drive. Let the drivers pay for parking on a cost-recovery basis. Nothing in life is free -- some things are just paid for by other people.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Good point...for toll roads.
Zach6668
Active Member
I'd be curious to see what the lifecycle costs to run a network of frequent peak feeder buses to these stations, vs say the cost of building, operating, and maintaining an expensive parking garage.
They say in the UT story that a garage has a usable life of 20 years. I don't know the exact number, but found a story saying "we're one of the few operators that gets 18 years out of a bus," so I'd imagine a more typical design life for a bus would be 12-15 years. Capitol costs of the garage vs capital costs of the buses + maintenance facility (if it can't be absorbed elsewhere) plus the operating costs of the garage vs the operating costs of buses.
I guess in a 2,000 space garage, at most, you're getting 4,000 people, probably more like 2,500, but let's be generous. Even at the conservative estimate of a capital cost of $35,000 per space, you're looking at $70,000,000 just to build it. How many buses can we buy for that? I'd imagine operating buses is probably significantly higher than operating the garage (since the owner of the cars pay fuel, insurance, wear and tear, etc), but still, something to think about?
Not everyone will switch, but there's still existing parking. It doesn't have to be expanded. GO could also finance part of the local transit expansion by using some of its soon-to-be excess parking land for development - maybe, the economics of that are a whole different story.
Adding massive amounts of parking will really add local congestion around the GO station too. I'm sure that's not ideal for locals, especially on a peak service where half of a trainload of people will all be trying to get out at once.
Rambling, but something to consider, anyways.
They say in the UT story that a garage has a usable life of 20 years. I don't know the exact number, but found a story saying "we're one of the few operators that gets 18 years out of a bus," so I'd imagine a more typical design life for a bus would be 12-15 years. Capitol costs of the garage vs capital costs of the buses + maintenance facility (if it can't be absorbed elsewhere) plus the operating costs of the garage vs the operating costs of buses.
I guess in a 2,000 space garage, at most, you're getting 4,000 people, probably more like 2,500, but let's be generous. Even at the conservative estimate of a capital cost of $35,000 per space, you're looking at $70,000,000 just to build it. How many buses can we buy for that? I'd imagine operating buses is probably significantly higher than operating the garage (since the owner of the cars pay fuel, insurance, wear and tear, etc), but still, something to think about?
Not everyone will switch, but there's still existing parking. It doesn't have to be expanded. GO could also finance part of the local transit expansion by using some of its soon-to-be excess parking land for development - maybe, the economics of that are a whole different story.
Adding massive amounts of parking will really add local congestion around the GO station too. I'm sure that's not ideal for locals, especially on a peak service where half of a trainload of people will all be trying to get out at once.
Rambling, but something to consider, anyways.