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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

dowlingm said:
Maybe that was 661/618 I saw heading EB at Monarch Park towards Danforth GO at 1423 yesterday. Wasn't close enough to see numbers.
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I saw them at Kerr St at about 1330 and you seeing at 1423 would be close to them being there. They were the only pair on the line that day.
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...go_trains_that_will_run_every_15_minutes.html
Ontario Liberals vow electrified GO trains that will run every 15 minutes
Within a decade commuters will be travelling on GO trains powered by electricity and they will only have to wait 15 minutes for one to show up.

By: Richard J. Brennan Provincial Politics, Published on Thu Apr 17 2014
Within a decade commuters will be travelling on GO trains powered by electricity and they will only have to wait 15 minutes for one to show up, Transportation Minister Glen Murray says.
Inside a train maintenance centre in Etobicoke on Thursday, Murray, along with Premier Kathleen Wynne, promised a regional express system in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton and area and beyond that will dramatically cut existing commute times.
It is all part of the minority Liberal government prebudget rollout and adds details to an announcement earlier this week where Wynne pledged $29 billion in dedicated transit funds. The budget is May 1 , and if it falls on a confidence vote, an election would come shortly after it.
“This trains running all days in both directions every 15 minutes. This competes now with the standards set in Paris, London in the United Kingdom and gives us 15-minute rapid rail service all across every corner of the GTHA (Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area),†Murray told reporters.
“This will double the ridership of GO over the next decade,†he said.
GO released a $4-million study in 2011 that put the cost of electrifying the Georgetown and Lakeshore lines at about $1.8 billion. Metrolinx anticipates that GO’s ridership of about 65 million trips a year will have doubled by 2031.
Murray said for example the GO train trip from Danforth to Union stations will take nine minutes as opposed to 28 minutes by TTC, and 18 minutes from Kennedy to Union stations or almost 20 minutes less than by the TTC.
Right now train runs every half-hour only on the Lakeshore line.
Wynne said it is a priority for her government to improve transit into Toronto’s downtown core.
“When I think about the convenience we are aspiring to, it’s the notion that you could show up at a station knowing that within the next 10 to 15 minutes there is going to be a train come by,†she said.
“This is about commuters, it is about congestion on the roads and it’s about convenience and helping people in their lives,†she said.
Murray explained the system will gradually be transitioning from diesels into electric multiple-unit vehicles, which he says, can move much more quickly, noting the Lakeshore line would probably be done first.
“We brought in a team from the U.K. and we consulted with our friends in France and they describe this as a regional surface subway because it is that kind of frequency,†he said.
The minister said it is hoped that with increased ridership there will a decrease in provincial subsidy for the GO service.
The new transit fund is expected to reallocate $1.2 billion of the $2.39 billion the province collects in gasoline taxes as well as another $130 million from the HST the government collects on gas and diesel fuel.
“We know there is an economic imperative to get this right and make sure that people can move around this region and beyond and that’s why we are making this investment,†Wynne said.
“We must continue to upgrade this system. Otherwise we are not going to have the economic prosperity that we need and we know we arecapable of,†she said.
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The Big Move proposed that only some of the GO lines should be upgraded based on cost-benefit analysis. While I like the idea of electrification, once again the politicians are calling the shots and finding even more unnecessary ways to spend money on transit.
 
^? big move had all of them being upgraded, and that was for hourly frequencies. They enter a whole other realm of possibilities on 15 minute frequencies.
 
^too lazy to look....I know the Big Move had them all upgraded to bi-directional 7 day service with 1 hour service off peak...but did it have them all electrified? I know that Lakeshores and KW were first to electrify in BM but I can't remember if eventually they all would....the new plan does electrify them all.
 
Electric trains have lower operating costs over their lifespan according to Metrolinx's study--electric engines are more efficient and have a longer lifespan. Naturally, we benefit from the cleaner and quieter transportation provided by electric trains. If we're serious about expanding our transit network, we should electrify any frequent GO line. Keeping operating costs low makes it harder to justify service cuts in the future.
 
I don't know about everyone else but I kinda assumed that the 15 minute service that Wynne/Murray announced this week would be for part of all the lines....looks like it is the entire GO network based on a tweet from Minister Murray this evening:

Glen Murray ‏@Glen4ONT 3h
.@chamberresearch @MayorJoyner Niagara will be getting 15min Regional Express Rail. See today's announcement. Completed with in 10 yrs.
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662 is lashed up with 633 in the yard for break-in and in the new colour scheme. looks like 663or664or665or666 could be setting at the west end of the yard and too far away to get any type of a shot of it, other in the new colours. 607 was in the east yard.

Metrolinx must hire a few 100's people to sit around on the payroll to get their 2 years under FRA requirement to operate a train to offer 15 minutes service.

For the Lakeshore to go to 15 minute service, it needs about 18 trains on the line for present day travel distance off peak. Once you expand the run, you are going to need more trains on line. Going to 15 minutes service on the Lakeshore, you need about 72 crews for off peak and doing 365 days a year.

I have said far too long, Metrolinx needs 2 power plants to support electrifying of the lines with one on each side of Toronto. Metrolinx can feed the excess power into the grid system at a cost to help the recovery cost of building the plants as well operating them. It will prevent any blackouts if one of the grid lines goes down like the past. Trains could still operate while everyone deals with a blackout.

Strachan Ave new overpass should be open in May and Metrolinx will be thrill if it happens then. If so, they can finally build the missing section current use for traffic. The tunnel is 100% completed of removing earth from it on both side of the detour road with crews starting to build the walls 100% full depth.
 
How much of an impact will electrification have on the number of crews required to operate 15 minute service on the Lakeshore Line (considering electric locomotives/EMUs present travel time savings due to faster acceleration/any other travel speed increases as a result of track upgrades)?
 
it would just under double it (twice the service, but faster travel times requiring less trains), but given the planned extensions to Niagara, Hamilton, and Bowmanville, I think you would be looking at well more than doubling of service. Introducing 15 minute service on all lines would require a HUGE hiring spree.
 
Junctionist - Electric locos do not *necessarily* last longer than diesels. There are 32 ALP-44s "stored" in New Jersey because it was deemed more cost effective to buy new ones than refit those. Amtrak and MARC's HHP-8s, currently 15 years old, are slated for retirement when their leases expire because of their unreliability. While they do tend to be lighter (100t vs 130t for an MP40) and this means they impose less track wear, it does make it harder for them to produce the sort of tractive effort that shifts a 12 pack of bilevels. Hopefully Bombardier and Siemens can offer a heftier version of their current models at a low top speed to get GO through the transition phase.

As for EMUs, there are no FRA 25kV low floor bilevels offered at present. NJT does look into it now and then, so hopefully GO will have an order partner to drive down unit pricing if suppliers start offering compliant designs.
 
dowlingm said:
As for EMUs, there are no FRA 25kV low floor bilevels offered at present. NJT does look into it now and then, so hopefully GO will have an order partner to drive down unit pricing if suppliers start offering compliant designs.
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GO would be ordering a couple hundred EMUs right? That should be sufficient volume to produce a design, tool a factory, and still get a reasonable price per unit. The factory will be going full bore for 5 to 8 years to crank them out.

Between Toronto Rockets, standard LRVs, custom LRVs (downtown network), and GO EMUs; Ontario will have 4 dedicated factories cranking out train cars for many years to come.
 
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I thought they were all built up at Thunder Bay in a singular plant? It mostly builds Bilevels for the North American market, but also does the TTC streetcars and TRs. Presumably Talent 2s as well in a few years. (If the province selects bombardier as the train producer, Ottawa did go with Alstom remember)
 
innsertnamehere said:
I thought they were all built up at Thunder Bay in a singular plant? It mostly builds Bilevels for the North American market, but also does the TTC streetcars and TRs. Presumably Talent 2s as well in a few years. (If the province selects bombardier as the train producer, Ottawa did go with Alstom remember)
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It would be nice if Ontario could find a way to repurpose one of the closed down auto plants to build transit vehicles instead. Transit expansion is going to be booming for the next 20-30 years, and in places like Windsor and Oshawa you have the plants, and you have skilled (former) auto workers looking for work. Think of how much more approval this GO REX plan would get if the Premier came out and said "all new EMUs that will be used by GO will be built in Windsor and Oshawa, creating hundreds, if not thousands of high paying jobs."
 
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