GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[robmausser]

Transfers aren't unusual in the better used railway networks. Most passengers in Spain/France/Germany making 500km+ trips would be transferring. Cross platform timed transfer points makes these extremely smooth; far smoother flying from London to Ottawa would be.


Fare integration is wholly political. There no technical reason why a single entity couldn't sell a combined VIA/GO/... trip ticket. Many times when people fly they don't even know who's operating the aircraft, only who they bought the ticket from; selling tickets on another companies flight is common.

Transfers might work in Europe and Asia with a large network where people are accustomed to such things, but this isn't Europe or Asia. Europe and Asia have people willing to do things for transit because cars and gas are much more relatively expensive to them than in Canada, even with the gas prices we have recently. It's not a car culture there as much, in a nutshell.

The majority of North American's have been turned off of trains because of poor service, and you are going to have to do everything to ensure it is a smooth ride that is nicer and cheaper than taking the car. A transfer at Union between two trains from London to Ottawa would kill the service here, even if it didn't elsewhere.

 

[reaperexpress]

Transfers might work in Europe and Asia with a large network where people are accustomed to such things, but this isn't Europe or Asia. Europe and Asia have people willing to do things for transit because cars and gas are much more relatively expensive to them than in Canada, even with the gas prices we have recently. It's not a car culture there as much, in a nutshell.

The majority of North American's have been turned off of trains because of poor service, and you are going to have to do everything to ensure it is a smooth ride that is nicer and cheaper than taking the car. A transfer at Union between two trains from London to Ottawa would kill the service here, even if it didn't elsewhere.

London to Ottawa? Is that really what we're optimising our railway network on?

Sure, transfers are always a disincentive to travel, but they are inevitable. It isn't practical to operate a reliable service if you're operating a one-seat ride from Québec City to Windsor. You need to split up the service somewhere, and in order to minimise the number of people who need to transfer, that split should occur where the highest turnover is in the train. Which is obviously at Toronto Union Station.

 

[crs1026]

London to Ottawa? Is that really what we're optimising our railway network on?

Sure, transfers are always a disincentive to travel, but they are inevitable. It isn't practical to operate a reliable service if you're operating a one-seat ride from Québec City to Windsor. You need to split up the service somewhere, and in order to minimise the number of people who need to transfer, that split should occur where the highest turnover is in the train. That is obviously Toronto Union Station.

There is a middle ground - we could likely do some (but not all) through trains much better once routes both east and west of Toronto are in GO/VIA's hands so there is more reliable timekeeping. But we could also do the transfers much better, especially if Union were remodelled with more of an upstairs "concourse" so that transfers are either across-platform or at least without the need to go downstairs and up again.

- Paul

 

[reaperexpress]

What's the length of this new 10 mph slow order?

Following VIA 84 on Moving Maps today, CN's new 10 mph slow order in Kitchener seems to be from Fisher Hallman Road to Park Street. At a length of 2.9 km (1.8 miles), it's nearly double the length of the former 10 mph slow zone in Guelph.

Before reaching the slow order, VIA 84 was expected to arrive in Kitchener 4 minutes late. (The below screenshot was taken slightly later, when the delay increased).

It ended up arriving in Kitchener 11 minutes late.

East of Park Street, the line is owned by Metrolinx, so it's actually maintained properly. For the last few hundred metres before Kitchener station, the train briefly accelerated up to 46 km/h before needing to brake for the station.

This morning's London GO train was similarly impacted. Approaching Kitchener it was on time,

but it arrived at Kitchener station nearly 10 minutes late.

 

[robmausser]

Following VIA 84 on Moving Maps today, CN's new 10 mph slow order in Kitchener seems to be from Fisher Hallman Road to Park Street. At a length of 2.9 km (1.8 miles), it's nearly double the length of the former 10 mph slow zone in Guelph.
View attachment 400934

Prior the start of the slow order, VIA 84 was expected to arrive in Kitchener 4 minutes late. (I didn't know where the slow order started so the screenshot is slightly later, with an estimated delay of 5 min).
View attachment 400931

It ended up arriving in Kitchener 11 minutes late.
View attachment 400933

East of Park Street, the line is owned by Metrolinx, so it's actually maintained properly. For the last few hundred metres before Kitchener station, the train briefly accelerated up to 46 km/h before needing to brake for the station.
View attachment 400932

This morning's London GO train was similarly impacted

Does anyone know the reason for the slow order?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The whole London thing is just not a good idea. Being stuck on a GO Train for 4 hours is not an ideal night no matter how you slice it.

 

[Northern Light]

The whole London thing is just not a good idea. Being stuck on a GO Train for 4 hours is not an ideal night no matter how you slice it.

This is not about taking a GO Train from London-Toronto, its about taking a GO Train from London To Stratford, or Kitchener.

There may the odd customer who would take the whole route, but London-Toronto is already available from VIA.

This is additional service targeting a different customer overall.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This is not about taking a GO Train from London-Toronto, its about taking a GO Train from London To Stratford, or Kitchener.

There may the odd customer who would take the whole route, but London-Toronto is already available from VIA.

This is additional service targeting a different customer overall.

Via already stops in these places though. The idea is good but the implementation is awful.

 

[reaperexpress]

The whole London thing is just not a good idea. Being stuck on a GO Train for 4 hours is not an ideal night no matter how you slice it.

How many times do we need to go over this?

London is not 4 hours away from Toronto. If the tracks were repaired to the standard of other GO and Via lines, it would take 2.5 hours.

The purpose of a London GO service is not to go from London to Toronto, the purpose is to go from London to Kitchener, Stratford to Toronto, London to Pearson, etc.

From a passenger perspective, Bombardier BiLevel coaches have basically the same layout as Dutch intercity trains which comfortably run routes twice as long as London-Toronto. All that's needed to make GO coaches more suitable for longer distances are different seats and seating layouts.

Via already stops in these places though. The idea is good but the implementation is awful.

Saying "the whole London thing" certainly sounds like a comment on the idea, not the implementation.

And we are not debating whether or not the current service is a good use of resources. It obviously isn't. It's just the cheapest token thing the Conservatives could think of to buy votes in London. They don't care if anyone actually uses the train. In fact their election platform states:

This new service has increased regional transit options for thousands of people each week in communities across Southwestern Ontario

even though ridership on the London GO service is only 60/train (600/week), consisting of 60-300 individual people per week. So although it may technically be an option for thousands of people, its service is so poor that almost none of them choose that option.

 

[smallspy]

Does anyone know the reason for the slow order?

"Surface conditions" is what I've been told.

Dan

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

How many times do we need to go over this?

London is not 4 hours away from Toronto. If the tracks were repaired to the standard of other GO and Via lines, it would take 2.5 hours.

The purpose of a London GO service is not to go from London to Toronto, the purpose is to go from London to Kitchener, Stratford to Toronto, London to Pearson, etc.

From a passenger perspective, Bombardier BiLevel coaches have basically the same layout as Dutch intercity trains which comfortably run routes twice as long as London-Toronto. All that's needed to make GO coaches more suitable for longer distances are different seats and seating layouts.



Saying "the whole London thing" certainly sounds like a comment on the idea, not the implementation.

And we are not debating whether or not the current service is a good use of resources. It obviously isn't. It's just the cheapest token thing the Conservatives could think of to buy votes in London. They don't care if anyone actually uses the train. In fact their election platform states:

even though ridership on the London GO service is only 60/train (600/week), consisting of 60-300 individual people per week. So although it may technically be an option for thousands of people, its service is so poor that almost none of them choose that option.

I know because of the track conditions the trip takes twice as long. I agree with the rest of your post. I feel the tracks should have been upgraded and bus service introduced first. The service is poor like you said but it seems its just political so.

 

[reaperexpress]

I know because of the track conditions the trip takes twice as long. I agree with the rest of your post. I feel the tracks should have been upgraded and bus service introduced first. The service is poor like you said but it seems its just political so.

Yes that is my opinion as well.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yes that is my opinion as well.

I feel like the Liberals should cancel this and reintroduce when the work is done. There's no political loss from doing so.

 

[squircle]

When air Canada or WestJet buys VIA tickets for customers who have cancellations, how does that work? Last time I bought my own ticket and had to wait a month for a refund. Is that how it always works?

Air Canada offered to put me on a Toronto -> Ottawa train (after I'd already volunteered to be bumped twice netting myself $800 cash). I happily agreed. I went to the customer service area in T1 (near domestic security) where they changed my reservation and gave me a prepaid UP Express voucher to get to Union. They said I needed to call VIA and tell them my ticket number (not the PNR, but the 014... proper ticket number) to make a reservation. I did so while I was on UPX, and they even added my Préférence number to the booking (it's Economy Plus so I got double points too, thanks AC). When I got to Union I popped into the business lounge to get my paper ticket and got on the train right away.

It was quite painless for me, though I imagine it could be confusing for somebody who isn't familiar with the airport or Union Station.

(I realize this isn't on-topic for the thread, but I thought it better to reply in the same thread than mix things up.)

 

[crs1026]

I feel like the Liberals should cancel this and reintroduce when the work is done. There's no political loss from doing so.

Considering there may have to be work blocks anyways, this could be explained as necessary…. if the reconstruction actually gets shovels in the ground. But it may take CN time to mobilize.

- Paul