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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
44 North
Senior Member
Sorry, out of the loop now on this. What is package 2 (and 1 and 3 for that matter)? Is one electrification, one stations, and one rolling stock?
steveintoronto
Superstar
It's a new game-show from Metrolinx called "Bafflegab" where the host, Phil Verster, and his magic minions play "Sleight of Hand" with Gullible Guests who pay taxes. (And somehow think they should have a say in how it's spent. Hilarious!)
Yesssirreee! Step right up to the workdfnb giutjretjhntrlrt, Squirrel!
This gives some insight, and I must admit I had to go over it all again to make sure I understood it as I thought. It does not translate equally across varying projects.
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...ardMtg_RER_Package1_Procurement_Update_EN.pdf
But wait! There's more...
And so on... But beware! Metrolinx can say and do anything it likes, so you lose all your money and have to start the game again. Isn't that exciting?
-All Google hits above
Now you understand the rules, reworked and reinvigorated, it's time to play: "Catch That Train!" (when the project is completed....err...when the RFP is issued....errr...exit, Stage 2 left...)
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steveintoronto
Superstar
And just when you think you understand it all, and can take home your hard earned rewards...Bzzzzz! The buzzer sounds...Penalty prize!
Time to play No Truth No Consequences!
The last link above:
canada.constructconnect.com
And as an extra inducement to indigestion, faint headedness and outright heart-attack, we've added another titillating testerone tickling trapdoor in Bafflegab, Package 2!
https://www.metrolinxengage.com/en
Time to play No Truth No Consequences!
The last link above:
IO to tackle GO RER with reworked planning team
Don Wall February 13, 2019
DON WALL — Derrick Toigo, Infrastructure Ontario’s executive vice-president in charge of roads and transit, laid out upcoming highway and transit projects for delegates attending the Ontario Road Builders’ Association conference in Toronto Feb. 5.
Infrastructure Ontario (IO) is revamping key planning and procurement practices as it prepares to take the second and third phases of the $10-billion-plus GO RER electrification project to market later this year.
Derrick Toigo, IO executive vice-president in charge of roads and transit, told delegates attending the Ontario Road Builders’ Association (ORBA) conference in Toronto Feb. 5 that the private firm Jacobs, owner’s engineer for Metrolinx, has taken on a more important and formal role in project planning and that IO will be announcing a new project staging strategy in the coming months.
Toigo also said IO was looking for ways to deliver more work to mid-tier Canadian contractors as huge consortiums expected to have significant international representation take on package 2 and 3 work on the RER (Regional Express Rail) project, and that IO was aiming to offer incentives to contractors to avoid major disruptions where possible as the builds proceed.
Each of the measures responds to criticisms levelled in the past by stakeholders.
“We have heard very clearly that there is pressure on the market about the ability to deliver these projects,” Toigo told the delegates.
“What we are trying to do with our partners is to figure out ways of working with you, with ORBA, and with other agencies and other stakeholders to figure out different ways to have you participate in our projects.”
A document titled GO Expansion Full Business Case that was approved by the Metrolinx board of directors in December put the total cost of the three phases of the RER project — the first-phase Early/Enabling Works, package 2 Off-Corridor projects and package 3 On-Corridor works (now called OnCorr) — at $16.2 billion.
The project will bring 15-minute service across the whole GO-owned network using new electrified trains. Construction of the final OnCorr phase is expected to start in 2021 with 2028 the targeted completion date.
Toigo posted a flow chart during his ORBA presentation that described the enhanced role Jacobs will be playing in planning RER alongside Metrolinx and IO.
“What we have done is we’ve taken a look at the expertise in the various organizations and determined which organizations are better able to perform the work,” he said in an interview.
“We have particular expertise in procurement and contract management, that’s what IO’s focus is, and Jacobs does the technical support. They are providing support to Metrolinx in performance requirements and scope development, and Metrolinx is the transit agency responsible for the delivery of transit so they define the planning, with the government, and the scope of the project, and they are the owners.”
He said the idea of the realignment of responsibilities developed out of conversations between Phil Verster and Ehren Cory, CEOs of Metrolinx and IO respectively, in recognition of the unprecedented complexity of the second and third phases of the RER project. The new integrated system was finalized last March.
Toigo said the RER project is not immune from the provincial government’s review of all major projects planned for the province. He said the government is doing its due diligence on the project and if the next phases receive a green light in the provincial budget, expected in late March, both package 2 and OnCorr could go to market with an RFP anticipated in late spring or early summer.
The new large-project staging measures will also be unveiled after the budget, said Toigo.
“You will see something coming out in the spring that will probably help you understand where projects are going in the next couple of years,” he told the ORBA audience.
“We don’t want all sorts of work at the same time creating unnecessary pressures on the market. While we want you to work, we want you to work with us effectively and encourage different folks to be part of our projects.”
Recognizing he was addressing roadbuilders, Toigo said there was a significant amount of work for ORBA contractors in various IO transit projects, with roads, bridges and other surface work required as part of such builds as the Finch, Hamilton, Hurontario and Eglinton LRT projects.
Among highway projects, Highway 407 East phase 2 and the Highway 427 expansion are under construction while Highway 401 widening with HOV lanes is in procurement.
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IO to tackle GO RER with reworked planning team - constructconnect.com - Daily Commercial News
Infrastructure Ontario (IO) is revamping key planning and procurement practices as it prepares to take the second and third phases of the $10-billion-plus GO RER electrification project to market later this year. Derrick Toigo, IO executive vice-presiden
canada.constructconnect.com
And as an extra inducement to indigestion, faint headedness and outright heart-attack, we've added another titillating testerone tickling trapdoor in Bafflegab, Package 2!
Can you find the hidden meaning in the text? But worry not, Waldo will be along to help at the Engage 'Ask Metrolinx', May 2, 2019 milieu. See if you too can trap your host, Phil Vester, in saying silly things for the record that he can't possibly be held to.
https://www.metrolinxengage.com/en
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steveintoronto
Superstar
And how fresh can the entertainment be folks? This'll keep you right on your toes. And be sure to disregard anything stated prior:
Be sure to read another exciting chapter in the ongoing and ever-changing game plan:
GO RER Package 3 surprises, concerns stakeholders
Don Wall April 19, 2018
https://canada.constructconnect.com...rer-package-3-surprises-concerns-stakeholders
https://canada.constructconnect.com...o-announces-changes-project-delivery-approach
https://canada.constructconnect.com...-announces-changes-project-delivery-approach#
IO announces changes to project delivery approach
Angela Gismondi April 30, 2019
Infrastructure Ontario (IO) is making changes to its procurement processes in an effort to increase global competition and innovation on major infrastructure projects across the province.
David Ho, executive vice-president of procurement and program management at IO and IO’s president and CEO Ehren Cory discussed the changes at a talk billed Innovating the Infrastructure Ontario P3 Model. The event was hosted by the Canadian Council for Public-Private Partnerships (CCPPP) in Toronto on April 25.
The new measures include the rebalancing of the bid scoring system to better reward innovation; moving toward more outcome-based specifications versus output specifications; and adjusting qualifications assessments to give fair weight to international experience.
“We are really pleased that coming out of the Minister’s Market Sounding Initiative, there is a real affirmation that our next steps in continuous improvement focus on both innovation and competitiveness,” Ho told the Daily Commercial News following the announcement. “We are signaling small changes that we believe will start the ball rolling on what’s to come in both of these areas.”
In early April, Ontario’s Minister of Infrastructure Monte McNaughton announced the government would be initiating new measures to attract international investment to Ontario’s P3 market.
“Part of our fundamental core value at IO is building great relationships,” said Ho.
“The changes that we signal here are changes that are coming out of dialogue that has happened with Infrastructure Ontario and, in particular, with the Minister of Infrastructure. The changes are reflective of commentary that has been received so, we think, this is demonstrative of us at IO listening to what the market has told us collectively as an agency, as well as the ministry and implementing that in the spirit of partnership. We think what we are moving forward with is very beneficial to the industry in general.”
Cory added, “We are open to listening, we are open for constantly hearing from you on what is and isn’t working and our job is to take that and translate it into meaningful change in the way we deliver our projects. We are committed to a dialogue on this.”
Moving toward outcome-based specifications will capitalize on private sector innovation, said Ho.
[...continues at length...]
Be sure to read another exciting chapter in the ongoing and ever-changing game plan:
GO RER Package 3 surprises, concerns stakeholders
Don Wall April 19, 2018
https://canada.constructconnect.com...rer-package-3-surprises-concerns-stakeholders
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rbt
Senior Member
Metrolinx broke RER into 3 parts.
Package 1: Early works like some Barrie work (not including Davenport Diamond), and USRC East/West. I'm not sure if Union station platform restructuring was in this or not. Other early works were tendered independently (Davenport Diamond, highway 401 tunnel, platform 24/25 reconfiguration, etc.)
Package 2: Trackside improvements (mostly station enhancement). These were more customer comfort items than necessities for service.
Package 3: On-track improvements, so new track, rolling-stock, electrification (if they choose to do so) and operations,
Package 3 was the big one. Package 1 sets the completion date for Package 3 as it gave an early start to the difficult pieces.
What actually closes is anybodies guess. I'm not sure Metrolinx knows yet.
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Allandale25
Senior Member
Of the above posts, I think this link is the most relevant at answering the question here: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...On_Corridor_Works_Procurement_Strategy_EN.pdf
"• Package 1 includes enabling works that support early enhanced service and prepare the network for future system-wide contracts
• Package 2 focuses on off-corridor projects and includes 12 new stations and modifications to existing stations
• Package 3 is network on-corridor infrastructure and delivery of the enhanced train services.
Metrolinx intends to employ a design, build, finance, operate and maintain (“DBFOM”) delivery model for Package 3."
I'm not surprised at the comment by @John Bisan that Package 2 has been cancelled. Does that not confirmed what the media have already reported on? The private sector now has a bigger role with station building and the Kitchener Extension (which included the freight bypass) has been reworked. The Metrolinx townhall in Durham Region is coming up and I assume they'll get lots of questions about the Bowmanville Extension so that should provide the update for that Package 2 item.
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John Bisan
New Member
John Bisan
New Member
package 2 were a split of new stations (smart track & others) which is now going with a market driven approach, (let developers build stations for air rights, Woodbine is an example) , second project is stations renovations, which is still in the air, no one knows yet what & when this will come back,
crs1026
Superstar
No one is surprised that a new government with a greater eye on the bottom line might tighten the purse strings, leading to deferrals or cancellations....however, one would expect that they have the courage to declare themselves.
The ML work program has always been a mixture of good intentions and dreams of a bright future. I expect all sorts of history rewrites around what was planned, what the tcd was, etc.
I was taught that being accountable means declaring what you will do, when it will be done by, and how much it will cost.... and then sticking to and fulfilling that statement. By that standard, which is business/public management 101 stuff, ML is not an accountable organization.
- Paul
The ML work program has always been a mixture of good intentions and dreams of a bright future. I expect all sorts of history rewrites around what was planned, what the tcd was, etc.
I was taught that being accountable means declaring what you will do, when it will be done by, and how much it will cost.... and then sticking to and fulfilling that statement. By that standard, which is business/public management 101 stuff, ML is not an accountable organization.
- Paul
Allandale25
Senior Member
Thanks for the clarifications. Seems like you have a good handle on what's changed and what's not online so appreciate the perspective.
bbanner102097
New Member
Your Metrolinx Engage question asking for this year's capital budget is a good one but I think there are two others that would reveal more about how ML has done so far overseeing GO Expansion/RER: 1. How much has been spent to date on GO Expansion; and 2. What is the value of actual infrastructure built using these public funds?
Answers:
1. $4.2 billion up to the end of February 2019
2. Very little on infrastructure but plenty on consultants and studies
This article on the mismanagement of the California HSR project is quite interesting and bears some resemblance to what's happening up here:
How California’s faltering high-speed rail project was ‘captured’ by costly consultants
When California shifted its bullet train plan into high gear in 2008, it had just 10 employees to manage and oversee design of the largest public construction project in state history.
www.latimes.com
crs1026
Superstar
^Actually, I asked a fairly similar question to your suggestion at the last town hall, perhaps a bit too critically, but all I got back was fluff. So I decided to try to be a bit more focussed.
I am not expecting much more granularity - the point being, if they can’t specify where they will have shovels in the ground, then there is no hope of seeing a result any time soon. 2024 is only 5 years from now.
One has to hope the media comment on this eventually. Pokes from we individual citizens don’t achieve much.
- Paul
I am not expecting much more granularity - the point being, if they can’t specify where they will have shovels in the ground, then there is no hope of seeing a result any time soon. 2024 is only 5 years from now.
One has to hope the media comment on this eventually. Pokes from we individual citizens don’t achieve much.
- Paul
steveintoronto
Superstar
Welcome to Bafflegab! Metrolinx didn't invent it, but they sure play it well. Verster's comments in the first two interviews here at UT (Jonathan English authored) were so refreshing and ostensibly honest at the time.
The later experience has been anything but...
bbanner102097
New Member
Unfortunately, he's a travelling salesman and my guess is he won't make it to the 2 year mark before he takes his shtick to the next, well-funded transit program elsewhere on the globe. One thing is for sure...the lucrative consultant contracts will sprout up in his wake.