News   Nov 22, 2024
National Housing Day: City of Toronto and Riverdale Co-op Open Affordable Homes
 485     1 
News   Nov 22, 2024
Bauhaus Condos Rising in Toronto's Old Town
 955     4 
News   Nov 22, 2024
49-Storey Waterfront Tower Proposed at Spadina and Queens Quay
 2.4K     7 

GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

^ Has it's been confirmed yet there won't be a through track possible for high-frequency rail? also there's been discussion on you see where people have suggested that VIA use the Stouffville Line to get to the CP Havelock Sub. I can see some advantages for going with that route.
 
smallspy said:
Except how many of those same Euro contractors have experience operating in the North American environment, with our different standards and regulations?

Dan
Click to expand...

It's not necessarily that difficult to adapt to different standards and regulations, particularly when they're aimed at the same public policy goals like safety. Bombardier, for instance, seemed to do fine building electric trains for North America and Europe.

The experienced contractors who have done numerous projects could probably adapt quickly to our regulations. My concern is that there are inexperienced contractors in North America whom we'll have to pay a lot of money so that they can learn how to build this kind of infrastructure on account of lack of experience. Perhaps let them learn alongside more experienced contractors from Europe.
 
Developments are coming in fast and furious.

Today....….the first hydrogen Alstom train has arrived in the Netherlands for testing and then immediate deployment.
2 days ago...…...KIRR {Korea} is going to be building hydrogen trains for deployment on it's non-electrified route by next year.
Last week......Germany is deploying a new hydrogen service starting this year
Last week...…..Alstom has sold it's first fleet of battery trains to be in service next year in Greater Frankfurt
2 weeks ago...…...Scotland is going to refurbish some of it's older diesel carriages into hydrogen trains starting this year as it de-carbonizes it's entire rail network by 2035
3 weeks ago.........India has signed a contract with TATA to design and build a new hydrogen train to be deployed within 2 years for it's huge suburban networks which carry over 10 million passengers a day.

If Toronto was worried about using hydrogen and/or battery due to be untested there is no threat of that as those days are long gone. In 6 years GO using hydrogen and/or battery will not be a trail blazer but rather playing catch-up.
 
I'm definitely more a fan of battery trains.

One can proceed with the RER baseline plan, and the battery trains provide a solution for hopping catenary gaps such as Brampton, Hamilton, and possibly Bowmanville.

Enough overhead catenary will be available that trains will never have to stop to recharge, and the battery capacity will be overprovisioned with sufficient emergency capacity so that it's only a 20% SoC cycling most of the time. I've written several posts about this.
 
asher__jo said:
The obsession with hydrogen trains is all a bit much. If they are a viable option, I'm sure they will be considered. There are multiple shortcomings adopting new technology though.
Click to expand...
Yeah, 6 years for a new train tech seems way too short for our non-trailblazer system. We need something that works, then we can muck about with new stuff.
 
Reecemartin said:
Meanwhile the selected winning bidder for the Ontario Line, easily the most complex rapid transit project in development in North America has the following experience:
- several crappy "new" US streetcars
- a few bus garages
- A few minor construction and station upgrades for major systems
- 0 projects of similar scope top the Ontario Line

This is them
https://www.hdrinc.com/markets/transportation/transit
Click to expand...

As a 'technical advisor', not the actual builder? Some of their projects involve large-scale station configurations like in Los Angeles's Union Station and New York's Fulton Center- I could see why Metrolinx may want their advice, especially for the downtown stations and East Harbour.

It also looks like they were part of the team for Denver's new commuter rail system, LA's Exposition line, and Honolulu's rail project (more of a disaster, unfortunately). I think they were also consultants for Metrolinx's Big Move projects previously as well- which might explain the connection.

Infrastructure Ontario and Metrolinx have selected the HDR-led team to serve as technical advisor for the approximately CAD$10.9 billion Ontario Line in Toronto. This nearly 16-kilometer, free-standing subway line, with 15 proposed stations, will run from Ontario Place/Exhibition Place through downtown Toronto to the Ontario Science Centre.

Expected to accommodate nearly 400,000 daily boardings, the Ontario Line will provide relief to TTC’s Line 1, serve fast-growing areas such as Liberty Village, and bring transit to underserviced priority neighbourhoods like Thorncliffe Park and Flemingdon Park.
Click to expand...
“The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area is experiencing unprecedented growth, and expanding the transit system is essential to connect people to jobs, schools and their communities. The Ontario Line represents an exciting investment for Toronto, one that will not only provide relief for the existing subway system but will also create connections with the existing and planned transit network,” said HDR Senior Vice President Tyrone Gan, principal-in-charge on the project. “Our team is committed and excited to be part of such an important infrastructure project in Canada.”

Building a new subway line through the downtown core of the most populous city in Canada is complex. As technical advisor, HDR and its primary partners — Mott MacDonald, Stantec, Systra and Comtech — will provide a wide range of planning, engineering, environmental, design and construction oversight services with the goal of successful, timely project delivery.
Click to expand...
www.hdrinc.com

HDR Selected as Technical Advisor for Ontario Line Subway

Infrastructure Ontario and Metrolinx have selected the HDR-led team to serve as technical advisor for the approximately CAD$10.9 billion Ontario Line in Toronto. This nearly 16-kilometer, free-standing subway line, with 15 proposed stations, will run from Ontario Place/Exhibition Place through...
www.hdrinc.com www.hdrinc.com
 
Last edited:
Reecemartin said:
Meanwhile the selected winning bidder for the Ontario Line, easily the most complex rapid transit project in development in North America has the following experience:
- several crappy "new" US streetcars
- a few bus garages
- A few minor construction and station upgrades for major systems
- 0 projects of similar scope top the Ontario Line

This is them
https://www.hdrinc.com/markets/transportation/transit
Click to expand...

From their website they've also consulted on the reconfiguration of the Six Points Interchange in Etobicoke. I'm thinking the focus will be to 1. connect the line to GO and 2. reconfigure the areas at Exhibition and East Harbour (hello, real estate developers!)
 
That's a pretty strong group of more specialized global firms, going up against the conglomerate behemoths.
 
ssiguy2 said:
I didn't understand a word of that video.
Click to expand...

I'll do my best to interpret:

You basically put 25 kV onto an overhead line to power a mainline train, but to ensure that it's safe from lightning strikes or equipment faults you have to add surge arresters at regular intervals. These arresters have to trigger at some voltage above 25 kV to avoid nuisance trips, but due to physics and manufacturing tolerance etc. in the worst case their guaranteed tripping point may end up being quite a bit above 25 kV.

Now let's say that you can only guarantee that they'll trip at 35 kV worst case (I made this number up, I have no idea what it really is), then all of your air gaps to other structures etc. have to be large enough to handle 35 kV plus tolerances for wind, humidity, dirt, etc. Suddenly you've got a whole bunch of bridges or other structures that appear to have plenty of space between them and the tracks to add a 25 kV overhead wire, but can't safely support electrification.

Instead of working forwards from electrical parameters to structural clearances as the established safety standards usually do, Siemens worked backwards and looked at the worst case structural clearances for Denmark's old line, figured out the highest voltage that the arrestors could allow, then engineered an arrester to meet that operating envelope. Existing safety standards are based on status quo, so Siemens then had to work with the regulators to get their new invention accepted into the standards so that Denmark's electrification project could go ahead. Let's just hope that it was true innovation and not another Boeing versus the FAA style 'Jedi mind trick'. *

* I'm not a fan of this Star Wars terminology, but if you've seen the Boeing e-mail dumps regarding the 737 MAX then you've seen their chief test pilot literally boasting about pulling off Jedi mind tricks on the FAA in persuading them that computer based training (versus a simulator) was sufficient. So sad for the families that lost their loved ones...
 
Last edited:
What exactly would this have over just no wires at all and using battery? They wouldn't have to be large battery systems but just contactless systems at every station much like what battery buses use at certain bus stops to keep the buses running all day. This concoction looks more like a make-work project than anything else.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top