TwoWheelPoli
Active Member
Wished he would have mentioned this on Bluesky as well. Fifty years of broken electrification promises is beyond absurd!
|
|
|
GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
Is it more dependable? Or is it just so frequent that you could be completely missing even 3 trains in a row, and it's still going to get you somewhere.
There certainly seems to be frequent enough subway delays in my experience - and even 10-minute gaps. Not to mention the slow zones on Line 1 north of St. Clair-ish. But the impacts are less.
Apples to apples. Compare GO Buses to TTC buses. Night and Day.
In my experience, on streetcars, the gaps are a function of frequency. When we had 5-minute frequencies, you got frequent bunching and 10 minute gaps. 15-minute aps were too frequent, and when things got really bad and their were detours there were 20 minute gaps.
Now we have 10-minute frequencies (at peak), then you get (perhaps slightly less) bunching and frequent 20 minutes gaps. All too many 30-minute gaps, and when it's bad, 40-minute gaps. Perhaps your post-Covid riding has been less?
Chow's complete lies and failure to restore TTC service is a huge issue, above and beyond complete TTC incompetence. About a third of the 20-minute gaps I see is because the following streetcar is runing 7-9 minutes EARLY. How is that even possible?
I've NEVER seen a GO bus leave early. On one occasion I've seen a GO train leave about 2-minutes early ... I think they must have had a clock issue or something.
T3G
Senior Member
Six of one, half a dozen of the other... whatever the reason is, I can still get somewhere. If GO had more frequent service (train and bus), the cancellation of any one given trip wouldn't be such a big deal either.
GO buses don't leave early, but every day I get an email notification informing me that bus cancellations might be in effect today. Helpfully, they never tell me which ones, so every time I go to a stop it's a gamble whether I'm about to get where I need to go, or not.
As for trains, it has been a policy since early 2023 to close the doors one minute before the posted departure time, to keep the train "on time". Presumably so that the thieves at ML don't have to pay out refunds in the event of 15+ minute delays.
On a good day, yes. But as I alluded to before, those good days are becoming rarer and rarer since the bumbling idiots at Metrolinx are in the grips of a fleet shortage.
On a bad day, the TTC bus will win out, no contest.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I could say I feel bad about saying "I told you so" but I don't. I have said repeatedly that ML has no intention of electrifying their fleet by their pathetic new timetable and turns out I was right. Now, they are saying 2040 which is also just a date pulled out of a hat. ML has no intention of putting up a single meter of catenary in the next 15 years if even that. That wouldn't be too much of a problem if they were to go with battery trains but ML has stated that they can't because the technology is still in "it's infancy". They obviously didn't get the memo that battery trains have been running for 150 years and their usage worldwide is growing exponentially. This is why every single major train manufacturer on the planet now offers BEMU................they see the writing on the wall.
This is why I still believe that EDMU {electro-diesel} are the best interim option. They are basically just hybrids but at their core they are 100% an ICE vehicle so they wouldn't require any new training or endless trial runs. They are exactly like a hybrid car.........electric in the city & diesel on the highway except swap the words city & diesel for at stations and on open track. They greatly decrease GHG emissions and especially particulate matter at stations, still de/accelerate faster than pure diesel, are quieter and smoother near stations, significantly reduce diesel consumption which is a big ticket item for GO and those savings quickly recoup the initial vehicle enhancement expenses,, and can be implemented remarkably easily into current vehicles yet needing absolutely no new infrastructure.
They offer so many benefits and yet work beautifully into ML's modus operandi of doing as little as humanely possible. All this takes is a simple yes from ML and it could be implemented very fast and at no cost and give ML and QP a transit political win which both desperately need.
This is why I still believe that EDMU {electro-diesel} are the best interim option. They are basically just hybrids but at their core they are 100% an ICE vehicle so they wouldn't require any new training or endless trial runs. They are exactly like a hybrid car.........electric in the city & diesel on the highway except swap the words city & diesel for at stations and on open track. They greatly decrease GHG emissions and especially particulate matter at stations, still de/accelerate faster than pure diesel, are quieter and smoother near stations, significantly reduce diesel consumption which is a big ticket item for GO and those savings quickly recoup the initial vehicle enhancement expenses,, and can be implemented remarkably easily into current vehicles yet needing absolutely no new infrastructure.
They offer so many benefits and yet work beautifully into ML's modus operandi of doing as little as humanely possible. All this takes is a simple yes from ML and it could be implemented very fast and at no cost and give ML and QP a transit political win which both desperately need.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
You're probably right. I'm guessing Metrolinx has no desire to go through the trouble of installing and miantaining all the overhead infrastructure that would come with electric trains.
The plan is probably to extend the lifespan of the diesel locomotives and hope that battery powered trains become a viable option within 5-10 years.
nfitz
Superstar
Yeah, I've noticed that ... but then I pull up an app to show me where the vehicles are, and it never seems to effect me.
Yes - but it was 2 minutes early when we started into motion! The doors were 3 minutes before the scheduled departure time. Of course Metrolinx denied it. But I was surprised by the closing, looked up at the departure time on the screen, looked at my always-on-time phone - and then I was so surprised I checked my phone time versus an online close to confirm! I didn't catch the current time on the departure board though ...
No - but that's why they pad all the arrival times at Union so much these days. Check out the Danforth and Exhibition to Union travel times. It's minutes slower than decades ago, even though they've (I think doubled) the track speed approaching Union Station!
Agreed. But recall I started out by discussing the past and future (for trains). Not the present:
"Metrolinx service reliability has (been) light years ahead of TTC. Their current maintenance issue will pass; and I bet afterward, Metrolinx service reliability will still be light years ahead."
urbanclient
Active Member
Not disagreeing here, this article from June 2025 shows Lakeshore West and East through USRC is slated for January 2038 completion, which is easily 2040 according to the Metrolinxian calendar.
How Metrolinx’s plan to deliver European-style train service went off the rails
GO Expansion will still transform Greater Golden Horseshoe transit — but likely won’t be as ambitious as what was planned just three years ago
www.thetrillium.ca
This horse has been beat to death, but what in the world happened to the money? As of January 1st, 2026, around $15 billion has been incurred, which translates to $57 million per km over 262 km... Already higher cost per km than most High Speed Rail lines... They've burned through $15 billion in less than 8 years? One has to wonder if that burn rate will continue until 2038 or further. The current burn rate is $2-3 billion a year...
And what little do we have to show for it in service improvements after (hopefully only) half the budget has already been spent?
Even if some tiny fraction of that $15 billion is for minor improvements to Milton and Richmond Hill, I'd argue that figure is still an underestimate given that the "Core GO Expansion" figures don't include Kitchener extended 2WAD, or most importantly, the 3 SmartTrack stations. IMO SmartTrack is an integral part of GO Expansion within the city of Toronto in practice...
Attachments
Last edited:
afransen
Senior Member
VP bonuses, contract break fees, management consulting engagements (definitely no kickbacks involved).Not disagreeing here, this article from June 2025 shows Lakeshore West and East through USRC is slated for January 2038 completion, which is easily 2040 according to the Metrolinxian calendar.
----------------------------------How Metrolinx’s plan to deliver European-style train service went off the rails
GO Expansion will still transform Greater Golden Horseshoe transit — but likely won’t be as ambitious as what was planned just three years ago
This horse has been beat to death, but what in the world happened to the money? As of January 1st, 2026, around $15 billion has been incurred, which translates to $57 million per km over 262 km... Already higher cost per km than most High Speed Rail lines... They've burned through $15 billion in less than 8 years? One has to wonder if that burn rate will continue until 2038 or further. The current burn rate is $2-3 billion a year...
And what little do we have to show for it in service improvements after (hopefully only) half the budget has already been spent?
Even if some tiny fraction of that $15 billion is for minor improvements to Milton and Richmond Hill, I'd argue that figure is still an underestimate given that the "Core GO Expansion" figures don't include Kitchener extended 2WAD, or most importantly, the 3 SmartTrack stations. IMO SmartTrack is an integral part of GO Expansion within the city of Toronto in practice...
View attachment 723083
urbanclient
Active Member
Maybe @cplchanb was right. Partially privatizing like the MTR so that the white collar elite can money grub in a constructive, rather than destructive way. Either they rent-seek from the project budget or they literally seek rent from real estate holdings like the MTR.
A majority state-owned landlord that actively expands housing and transit in pursuit of profit vs. a wholly state-owned money printer for consultants that blows through budgets leading to transit project descoping. Which would we rather have?