GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[nfitz]

That seems to work fine for the Overground in London, and likely a few other systems.

Lots of other systems ... including the outdoor sections of the Toronto subway. Snow and leaf fall would be the biggest issue. One would think you'd get more reliability and less downtime with overhead. Though if one uses the Overground as an example, we could always run DMUs, which are still used on one branch of the Overground.

 

[andrewpmk]

Exactly.

Unrelated, does anyone know why it seems that we're not considering third rail electrification? I caught an article with someone from Metrolinx saying that they'd need to bring all sorts of people in to consult on electrification as it's a relatively unknown process here. It strikes me that we should have knowledge of third rail systems, as that's what the subway is. That seems to work fine for the Overground in London, and likely a few other systems.

The vast majority of mainline rail systems use overhead wires because it allows higher speeds, safety at level crossings, etc. Except for subway systems which normally use third rail to reduce the tunnel diameter (except Eglinton where we waste money building a larger diameter tunnel because David Miller insists on building light rail for political reasons).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The vast majority of mainline rail systems use overhead wires because it allows higher speeds, safety at level crossings, etc. Except for subway systems which normally use third rail to reduce the tunnel diameter (except Eglinton where we waste money building a larger diameter tunnel because David Miller insists on building light rail for political reasons).

Except I doubt such incremental "waste" would be greater than building the section between Don Mills and Kennedy underground.

AoD

 

[rbt]

Except I doubt such incremental "waste" would be greater than building the section between Don Mills and Kennedy underground.

It isn't. The complete cost of the tunnel for Eglinton is well under $1B. Stations might dig down an extra 80cm but that would be it (Spadina is 5.4m diameter, Eglinton is 6.2m diameter).

There were also potential savings for the underground portion due to Eglinton trains having more power than Toronto Rockets which allows for steeper slopes. A 1% grade difference can take tens of meters off the required depth of a station where the landscape is hilly.

Of course, rolling stock was more expensive as a result increased capability, but we also save on tunnel maintenance for the surface sections which would be in the millions per year in 20 years.

 

[Solid Snake]

There are ways to make it more grade separated even for the surface section between Don Mills and Kennedy.

Intersections barriers+(true) signal priority

LRT stations at Grade with enhance pedestrian acces for better security.

We've all seen our share of pedestrians foolishly risking their lives to catch a streetcar disregarding traffic lights thus forcing streetcars to slowdown at intersections (frequent on St.Clair)

These upgrades can always be added later without having to bury the line or elevating it (which seems unlikely).

 

[Platform 27]

Is there a thread on this forum you guys CAN'T turn into a "waaaah why not subways subways subways David Miller hurr" bitchfest?

 

[Solid Snake]

Is there a thread on this forum you guys CAN'T turn into a "waaaah why not subways subways subways David Miller hurr" bitchfest?

First of all... cool off. There's no need to act like a frustrated teenager who didn't get his sugar fix today

Second, hopefully you weren't referring to my post otherwise I worry about you're reading comprehension skills. Nowhere am I suggesting to upgrade Eglinton to a subway. I was making suggestions to increase pedestrian's security and making sure the Crosstown operating speed stays optimal.

Third, I get and respect you're love for LRT. This board is lacking respect and as much as you DEMAND that you're preference towards light rail be respected, you should do the same for those who prefer heavy rail. On this corridor, they both have merits.

Lastly, I don't even care for subways for Eglinton. Light rail is fine but most people agree that there's room for improvement which still makes it light rail by the way. Is the DLR in London a subway or light rail?
My god...get a grip!!!!!!!!!

 

[dunkalunk]

So, about that GO electrification :3

 

[nfitz]

First of all... cool off. There's no need to act like a frustrated teenager who didn't get his sugar fix today

Second, hopefully you weren't referring to my post otherwise I worry about you're reading comprehension skills. Nowhere am I suggesting to upgrade Eglinton to a subway. I was making suggestions to increase pedestrian's security and making sure the Crosstown operating speed stays optimal.

Third, I get and respect you're love for LRT. This board is lacking respect and as much as you DEMAND that you're preference towards light rail be respected, you should do the same for those who prefer heavy rail. On this corridor, they both have merits.

Lastly, I don't even care for subways for Eglinton. Light rail is fine but most people agree that there's room for improvement which still makes it light rail by the way. Is the DLR in London a subway or light rail?
My god...get a grip!!!!!!!!!

Clearly he was referring to andrewpmk's not you. And quite frankly, it's a valid complaint. The mods need to clamp down on those trying to turn every thread into an anti-LRT bitchfest, and continuing to denigrate Ford's infinitely superior predecessor. Instead we actually saw a mod bite when trolled.

 

[Solid Snake]

Clearly he was referring to andrewpmk's not you. And quite frankly, it's a valid complaint. The mods need to clamp down on those trying to turn every thread into an anti-LRT bitchfest, and continuing to denigrate Ford's infinitely superior predecessor. Instead we actually saw a mod bite when trolled.

Then I apologize to him for being too harsh.

Like I said, LRT is fine on Eglinton. There's nothing anti-LRT about finding ways to improve it's reliability and security. On the contrary I want this LRT to be as successful as possible.

London must be anti LRT to have found ways to improve theirs... those anti-lrt jerks...

Now, going back to go, having better infrastructure for LRT stations to connect to future GO RER station should not be overlooked

 

[innsertnamehere]

Talk LRT all you want in the LRT threads, that is what they are asking. Not whether you are right or wrong, just that this thread is for GO electrification, not LRT. If you want to discuss LRT, do it in the respective thread.

Anyone else find the moderating on this sub forum seems to have been nearly non existent recently?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I rarely see any moderating of Transportation & Infrastructure. The other sub-forums are far more heavy moderated. Though that may be because Transportation & Infrastructure is more cordial that some of the other sub-forums, requiring less moderating.

I am not a fan of heavy handed moderating, but something does need to be done about the off topic issue. I don't mind if we go "off topic" if the project is related (eg: talking about the effects of the ECLRT on Yonge crowding on the DRL thread). The networked and political nature of transit means that it is impossible to avoid these off topic conversations. But these long discussions about projects that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread in question need to stop.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The only problem is a damn big one..................GO costs too damn much! GO could run trains every 30 seconds and electrify the whole system and it wouldn`t make a hoot of difference to most people in the city of Toronto, it will still remain to expensive for them to take. Fare integration îe subtracting the amount paid for your local transit service from your GO fare, is only the start and still will entice only a few to take a RER type system.

This is something I've been saying for years. As long as from the POV of the customer GO and TTC are two different systems and as long as a new fare is required to transfer between the systems, these GO rail corridors will never reach their full potential. If GO, Metrolinx and the TTC are serious about using the rail corridors to the full potential, they will need to have full service integration between the systems as well as a single fare for local travel.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Probably not the greatest idea if you are in a region with lots of snow

I can't recall any time where that has been an issue for Toronto at-grade subways with third rail power collection (excluding SRT)

 

[nfitz]

I can't recall any time where that has been an issue for Toronto at-grade subways with third rail power collection (excluding SRT)

What about all the times the Yonge line has been stopped between Bloor and Eglinton because of snow problems? I seem to recall Danforth snow problems near Victoria Park as well.

Given that this is a problem on the very frequent YUS and BD lines that never run less than once every 6 minutes are are mostly underground, surely it's a much bigger concern on lines will be longer, near 100% overground, and run less frequently.

Can you imagine them having to run GO services frequently all night long to keep the lines clear?

And then there's the trespasser issue ...