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GO Transit Electrification (Metrolinx, Proposed)

Reecemartin

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As ha been pointed out in other threads, it's a bit worrying that the word "electrification" has been removed from the latest press releases - but was there in the older ones. It's possible that this is entirely diesel.
Frankly it's not possible and everyone here knows it, you aren't going to be able to operate diesel trains at a reasonable cost with 5 min headway.

And these companies which are bidding know that better than most.
 

John Bisan

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As ha been pointed out in other threads, it's a bit worrying that the word "electrification" has been removed from the latest press releases - but was there in the older ones. It's possible that this is entirely diesel.
it's up to the proponents to choose the technology, (Electrified, hydrogen or others) , it wont be diesel
 

nfitz

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Cancelling this now would be WAY worse than a scandal like the gas plants. The PCs may be jerks, but I seriously don't think they're aiming to do that.
The gas plants were unused, and knocked down. They are still months to years before awarding most of these projects. And the stuff still exists once it's built ... it will get used sooner or later.

And whose to say it's the PCs? The worst offender for cutting GO Transit services and expansion were the NDP. Or perhaps a future PC leader will cancel what this one is doing ... which is exactly what PC Premier MIller did when he came in, quickly cancelling the very frequent subway-like electrified service on Lakeshore line that they were working on under Premier Davis. Sure, the infrastructure eventually got used for the dedicated GO tracks from Pickering to Oshawa, but all the electrification contracts were a waste ... and I don't recall much uproar about that.

Frankly it's not possible and everyone here knows it, you aren't going to be able to operate diesel trains at a reasonable cost with 5 min headway.
Whose to say it will be 5-minute headways still.

I think you are wrong - and not everyone here knows that it can only be electrified. You are pre-assuming what kind of service that GO is tendering to operate ... which might fall back to the much simpler RER proposals the Liberals originally had, which didn't assume electrification was occurring.

it's up to the proponents to choose the technology, (Electrified, hydrogen or others) , it wont be diesel
Do you have a reference or source for that?
 

Reecemartin

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The gas plants were unused, and knocked down. They are still months to years before awarding most of these projects. And the stuff still exists once it's built ... it will get used sooner or later.

And whose to say it's the PCs? The worst offender for cutting GO Transit services and expansion were the NDP. Or perhaps a future PC leader will cancel what this one is doing ... which is exactly what PC Premier MIller did when he came in, quickly cancelling the very frequent subway-like electrified service on Lakeshore line that they were working on under Premier Davis. Sure, the infrastructure eventually got used for the dedicated GO tracks from Pickering to Oshawa, but all the electrification contracts were a waste ... and I don't recall much uproar about that.

Whose to say it will be 5-minute headways still.

I think you are wrong - and not everyone here knows that it can only be electrified. You are pre-assuming what kind of service that GO is tendering to operate ... which might fall back to the much simpler RER proposals the Liberals originally had, which didn't assume electrification was occurring.

Do you have a reference or source for that?
The NDP cutting transit seems unthinkable.

Nonetheless most of these points have been clarified if you dig into the announcements and technical documentation.
 

Leo_Chan

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Skip to 4:30 where he clearly states that they are looking to replace diesel
Also at 9:02 and pretty much everything afterwards is really interesting.

I’d say one of the good things about this government is that they record and upload their own announcements.
Now if only Toronto/TTC did the same.
 

jje1000

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He mentions they are looking for a bilevel solution at 11 minutes in as well. So Stadler kiss or NJ Transit EMU are good options.
I think it'll be interesting comparing the listed teams with the possible bi-level products they offer. Siemens, Bombardier and Alstom are directly involved with some of the teams. MTR's involvement is also interesting, as they do operate a couple of train lines around the world, including Sydney's and Melbourne's lines, and does use a variety of different rolling stock across their lines.

Also I wonder what the scope of the project is (which core segments are they focusing on- has it changed?), and what the total amount budgeting is.

Teams Prequalified for Go Rail Expansion On-Corridor Works Project
May 30, 2019
TORONTO - Infrastructure Ontario and Metrolinx are pleased to announce four teams have been prequalified to bid on the On-Corridor Works project as part of the GO Rail Expansion program which will provide more travel options for residents and commuters. Upon delivery, the GO Rail Expansion program will provide faster, more frequent, two-way, all-day service on core segments of the GO rail network.
Teams were prequalified from a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) process that began in March 2018 and were evaluated based on their experience and ability to design, build, finance, operate and maintain a project of this scope and complexity.
The prequalified teams are:
EnTransit
  • Applicant Lead: SNC-Lavalin Capital, Siemens Project Ventures, Keolis
  • Construction Team: SNC-Lavalin, Siemens
  • Design Team: SNC-Lavalin, Siemens, Balfour Beatty Rail
  • Operations & Maintenance Team: Keolis SNCF, SNC-Lavalin, Siemens
  • Financial Advisor: National Bank
MTR Kiewit Partners
  • Applicant Lead: MTR, Kiewit
  • Construction Team: MTR, Kiewit
  • Design Team: MTR, Arup, Mott Macdonald
  • Operations & Maintenance Team: MTR
  • Financial Advisor: Scotiabank
ONcore Transit
  • Applicant Lead: ACS
  • Construction Team: Dragados Canada
  • Design Team: AECOM, Sener
  • Operations & Maintenance Team: ACSIC, RATP Dev, Bombardier
  • Financial Advisor: Astris Finance and Rubicon
ONxpress Transportation Partners
  • Applicant Lead: Aecon Concessions, John Holland, Meridiam Infrastructure, Alstom Transport Canada
  • Construction Team: Aecon IM, John Holland, Alstom
  • Design Team: WSP, Hatch, Alstom
  • Operations & Maintenance Team: Deutsche Bahn, John Holland, Aecon O&M
  • Financial Advisor: RBC Dominion Securities
The scope of the On Corridor Works project includes:
  • Operation of train services including train driving
  • Timetable planning, train control and dispatch for all operators across the GO-owned rail network
  • Design, build, finance, integration, maintenance, rehabilitation or renewal of the railway corridor (civil infrastructure, tracks, systems, signaling, rolling stock, etc.)
  • Refurbishment, maintenance, servicing and cleaning of all rolling stock and procurement of new rolling stock
  • Construction of new maintenance and train storage and/or layover facilities
  • Reconstruction of Union Station track and platforms
  • Compliance with Metrolinx safety, security and emergency management policies
The On-Corridor Works project is a part of the Province's GO Rail Expansion program that will transform the existing GO Rail network into a world class rail system, create vibrant communities and provide greater opportunities for local jobs and business investment in the Greater Golden Horseshoe.
 
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cplchanb

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I think it'll be interesting comparing the listed teams with the possible bi-level products they offer. Siemens, Bombardier and Alstom are directly involved with some of the teams. MTR's involvement is also interesting, as they do operate a couple of train lines around the world, including Sydney's and Melbourne's lines, and does use a variety of different rolling stock across their lines.

Also I wonder what the scope of the project is (which core segments are they focusing on- has it changed?), and what the total amount budgeting is.
I sure hope MTR gets it. They have the best track record out of them all. Anything with SNC and Aecon just screams late and over budget or corruption
 

ssiguy2

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Well the main thing is that they are going to be getting rid of diesel for RER which is nothing but good news.

My concern is with the type of vehicles. I have always been strongly against bi-level trains and remain so. They are completely inferior to single levels which allow for much faster entry/exit times and hence far shorter station dwell times allowing for a faster tripe and higher frequency. Bi-levels for suburban systems are also notoriously bad for wheelchair/stroller access or for anyone with a mobility issues.
 

JSF-1

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Well the main thing is that they are going to be getting rid of diesel for RER which is nothing but good news.

My concern is with the type of vehicles. I have always been strongly against bi-level trains and remain so. They are completely inferior to single levels which allow for much faster entry/exit times and hence far shorter station dwell times allowing for a faster tripe and higher frequency. Bi-levels for suburban systems are also notoriously bad for wheelchair/stroller access or for anyone with a mobility issues.
I think Bi-Levels would be better suited to the express service while single level trains run local, but it seems will be going pure Bi-Level. Assuming we go with the Stadler KISS for the electrified lines I wonder if there is an appetite for say the Stadler FLIRT for non-electrified lines like Richmond Hill. I personally don't see any problem running both EMU's and DMU's especially if they are both from the same company.
 

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