GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[crs1026]

I can't imagine the practicality of building whole stations and adding additional tracks under energised catenary.

Electrification has to wait for track, signalling, and stations to be in place before it can be added.

Now, am I happy with the speed of completing all that track and those stations? Heck, no.

But no amount of ranting is going to speed up electrification. It is not a standalone project that can proceed in parallel with expansion. It has always been a "when the prerequisites are finished" proposition.

- Paul

 

[generalcanada]

What would you consider to be part of the "electrification works"? Couldn't it be argued the Wilson Yard (recent rendering shows OCS poles) and the Union Station South Concourse construction works are critical for LSE and LSW electrification? What do you specifically want to see underway?

I mean Whitby has had "footings" installed since 2017. I guess thats electrification works?
Considering USEP started in 2022 and is going to be 5 years delayed......if its critical why is it so delayed. If the chart is accurate then why are we starting other works before that.

 

[smallspy]

3 lines can be electrified from Bramalea to south of the 401 and be 4 tracks from there to Union. CN only needs the north track 1 to the 401.

All mainline tracks will be electrified. All mainline crossovers will be electrified.

What will not be electrified is any industrial tracks. But those are not mainline tracks.

There is no plan for electrification. Electrification has essentially been put on hold indefinitely. MX just hasn't came out and said it.

So when should I tell my buddy that he's out of a job?

I mean Whitby has had "footings" installed since 2017. I guess thats electrification works?
Considering USEP started in 2022 and is going to be 5 years delayed......if its critical why is it so delayed. If the chart is accurate then why are we starting other works before that.

There is way more than just the footings at Whitby that have been done.

And not just at Whitby, either.

Dan

 

[generalcanada]

I can't imagine the practicality of building whole stations and adding additional tracks under energised catenary.

Electrification has to wait for track, signalling, and stations to be in place before it can be added.

Now, am I happy with the speed of completing all that track and those stations? Heck, no.

But no amount of ranting is going to speed up electrification. It is not a standalone project that can proceed in parallel with expansion. It has always been a "when the prerequisites are finished" proposition.

- Paul

The chart says that is just not true. theyre doing tracks and electrification at the same time? Like If you have go through all 4 LSE tracks west of danforth before putting up structures and substations then that chart is wildly inaccurate.

Evidently its possible

 

[smallspy]

The chart says that is just not true. theyre doing tracks and electrification at the same time? Like If you have go through all 4 LSE tracks west of danforth before putting up structures and substations then that chart is wildly inaccurate.

Evidently its possible

Some portions of it can be built simultaneously.

Substations aren't changing their position if the track gets reconfigured. Same with the feeder buses.

OCS gantries aren't either - they just might need to be made a bit larger than otherwise to account for any track shifts.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

I can't imagine the practicality of building whole stations and adding additional tracks under energised catenary.

How do other railroads do exactly this?

 

[drum118]

All mainline tracks will be electrified. All mainline crossovers will be electrified.

What will not be electrified is any industrial tracks. But those are not mainline tracks.


So when should I tell my buddy that he's out of a job?


There is way more than just the footings at Whitby that have been done.

And not just at Whitby, either.

Dan

Wasn't sure if CN would want to run under the wires since they refused allowing GO to do it on their corridor, but this ML corridor. No reason they cannot in the first place. Any siding will no see overhead since there is no need to do so.

 

[smallspy]

Wasn't sure if CN would want to run under the wires since they refused allowing GO to do it on their corridor, but this ML corridor. No reason they cannot in the first place. Any siding will no see overhead since there is no need to do so.

They had no problems running under the wire in Montréal. They have no problems running under the wire in Waterloo. They will have no problems running under the wire here.

There is a big difference, however, between allowing wire to be put up on your own tracks and running under someone else's on their tracks.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

The chart says that is just not true. theyre doing tracks and electrification at the same time? Like If you have go through all 4 LSE tracks west of danforth before putting up structures and substations then that chart is wildly inaccurate.

Evidently its possible

Count the number of cranes, excavators, booms, and similar tall work equipment that are in operation along the expansion projects.

Consider how much paperwork and safety training would be required to perform all that work under live wires. And how many service disruptions would be required.

One can't just put orange isolation sleeves over catenary and run trains through, as if it were a building under construction under hydro wires..

I am very confident that, despite their faults, the people managing expansion projects are very grateful not to have to contend with existing catenary while they do their various projects.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

There is a big difference, however, between allowing wire to be put up on your own tracks and running under someone else's on their tracks.

CN literally installed the wires themselves in Montreal - and it was their choice.

 

[lastcommodore]

source? if thats the case why did they re-buy their ancient F59s for a so called "interim" instead of investing on new or newer equipment?

Already answered this before... I am not sure what you want, really. GO wants to run more, shorter trains, diesel or electric. First in-service catenary is, even at the lowest estimates, far away. What do you want to haul them.

 

[reaperexpress]

Count the number of cranes, excavators, booms, and similar tall work equipment that are in operation along the expansion projects.

Consider how much paperwork and safety training would be required to perform all that work under live wires. And how many service disruptions would be required.

One can't just put orange isolation sleeves over catenary and run trains through, as if it were a building under construction under hydro wires..

I am very confident that, despite their faults, the people managing expansion projects are very grateful not to have to contend with existing catenary while they do their various projects.

- Paul

It certainly requires additional training, but pretty much every developed rail network outside of Canada manages to build infill stations on electrified railways without abandoning electrification. They do need to have periodic weekend closures, but that's already the case even without electrification.

Let's not equate "it would be annoying" with "electrification has to wait".

 

[drum118]

They had no problems running under the wire in Montréal. They have no problems running under the wire in Waterloo. They will have no problems running under the wire here.

There is a big difference, however, between allowing wire to be put up on your own tracks and running under someone else's on their tracks.

Dan

That is the problem with RR in NA where they can run under other RR with overhead but refuse to allow it on their own line. CSX has no problems running wire on the east coast yet when the Purple Line wanted to run in a short section of CSX corridor, the Purple line had to jump through all kind of hoops to do so even building a crash wall between CSX two main lines and the new LRT ROW.

You can see both electric and diesel freight trains under wire in Europe with no problem other been short ones under 40 cars and single levels compare to 100-275 in NA that are double stack.

 

[Bojaxs]

That is the problem with RR in NA where they can run under other RR with overhead but refuse to allow it on their own line. CSX has no problems running wire on the east coast yet when the Purple Line wanted to run in a short section of CSX corridor, the Purple line had to jump through all kind of hoops to do so even building a crash wall between CSX two main lines and the new LRT ROW.

You can see both electric and diesel freight trains under wire in Europe with no problem other been short ones under 40 cars and single levels compare to 100-275 in NA that are double stack.

Freight trains can't "double stack" in Europe because of all the overhead infrastructure for electric trains.

This makes freight trains less profitable in Europe and results in more trucks on their roads and highways.

 

[T3G]

Frieght trains can't "double stack" in Europe because of all the over head infrastructure for electric trains.

It's usually because many bridges and tunnels were built more than a hundred years ago and have a much smaller permissible loading gauge, as stuff like bilevels and double stacked containers weren't thought of in the late 1800s. The electric infrastructure was set lower as a natural consequence of how the pre-existing infra was set.

As well, it comes with trade-offs. Sure, you have more trucks on the roads and highways, but they also have usable passenger rail, unlike us, so, swings and roundabouts.