GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[crs1026]

Interesting that the Barrie corridor got descoped a bit. The original goal was 15 min to Aurora and 60 min to Barrie. The 15 min commitment to Aurora was quite public, repeated everywhere.

They decided on 15 min to Maple, 30 min to Aurora, 60 min to Bradford, 120 min to Allandale.
---

Doubly puzzling since the plan describes double tracking being extended from Kirby (ie north of Maple) to "King Lumber" (Dufferin St) - this is already shovels in the ground - and since the stretch from Dufferin to Bathurst has already been widened with subgrade for a 2nd track now in place (less one culvert over Lake Pino) all the way to Bathurst. That would leave only a short stretch of about 2.6 miles of single track north to Aurora - easily handling 15 minute 2- way service.

- Paul

 

[kotsy]

Eastern Bridge/LSE Corridor update:

 

[TOtramz]

How tall are those concrete sound barriers and would you be able to see over those on the second floor of a GO train.

 

[HuskyJet]

People in Barrie and Newmarket need to make noise about this. They own the whole line. They need to stick to previous commitments and provide 15-minute service to Bradford and 60-minute service to Barrie.

The GO service plan is information given to GTA communities and individuals who rely on these commitments to make many plans. Finding out that your town is ‘t on the 2WAD grid ought to be hugely controversial if the previous iteration declared that it was.

On a personal note, I am one of these people. I closed on a place in Barrie a mere month before we learned the ONExpress OOI contract imploded and of the extent GO Expansion is scaled back. Of course responsibility is still mine (ultimately) for jumping the gun a bit before anything was concrete, but still this latest batch of info from MX is really making me reconsider my life choices!

I'll take Barrie line 2-hour AD2W happily. What makes me prickle is the "all-stop" component to that promise. What I haven't heard talked about is any plan to decrease travel time. AFAIKnew, the end goal was express service cutting 20 ish minutes off total travel time. Now it seems we'll get 4 extra stations and 10% faster electric trains which may just about keep Allandale to Union the same travel time as it is today.

Is anyone tracking any work being proposed to speed up that corridor at all? Seems a shame to be planning all this electrification and double tracking but not tackling realignments or infrastructure upgrades where they could really be effective (the multiple 45mph slow zones like north of the Davenport diamond, crossing the 407, and crossing the CN rail corridor, or realignments north of Bradford where it's relatively straight and open farm fields, etc)

 

[crs1026]

One curious item from the Kitchener "mission" is the statement that the grade separation (flyover?) will be at Silver Jct and not over near the Credit River, as previously conjectured.

Having the grade separation on the west side of Georgetown GO station implies a re-arrangement of that station, with the GO platform needing to be on the south side rather than the north. That might make some sense in that the parking lot is to the south.... but it's one more capital project needed to implement 2WAD.

In either case, one question is whether the Credit bridge will be "shared" or will GO have two dedicated tracks? The latter may imply extending the bridge piers yet again, as well as adding the spans to the existing but unused third track piers.

Hope to learn more detail on this.

- Paul

 

[Bojaxs]

How tall are those concrete sound barriers and would you be able to see over those on the second floor of a GO train.

Can't stand Metrolinx's overuse of noise walls. Part of the enjoyment of riding the train is looking out the window and watching the world go by. Not to mention they attract taggers and graffiti. Also the bottom floor of the GO train is shrouded in darkness. Even on a sunny day.

I rode the second floor of the GO train on the Stouffville line and could barely see over the wall.

 

[WB62]

You can see over the walls at East Harbour

 

[EnviroTO]

Can't stand Metrolinx's overuse of noise walls. Part of the enjoyment of riding the train is looking out the window and watching the world go by. Not to mention they attract taggers and graffiti.

The communities demanded the noise walls, Metrolinx agreed that it would be nice to look out the window and see things, but to your last point taggers painted graffiti on all the clear panels that were there to allow people to see through.

 

[Bojaxs]

The communities demanded the noise walls,

Too bad for them. If you live right beside a railroad track and don't like seeing trains, than either move out or live with it.

 

[EnviroTO]

Too bad for them. If you live right beside a railroad track and don't like seeing trains, than either move out or live with it.

They are getting the walls because the service profile and noise is being greatly increased. I don't think they mind seeing trains or to your point they wouldn't be living there, but these lines are going from a weekday only rush-hour service to a subway line with loud diesel engines. It would be no different from the community reaction to a street in front of their home all of a sudden becoming a truck route.

 

[Allandale25]

One curious item from the Kitchener "mission" is the statement that the grade separation (flyover?) will be at Silver Jct and not over near the Credit River, as previously conjectured.

Having the grade separation on the west side of Georgetown GO station implies a re-arrangement of that station, with the GO platform needing to be on the south side rather than the north. That might make some sense in that the parking lot is to the south.... but it's one more capital project needed to implement 2WAD.

In either case, one question is whether the Credit bridge will be "shared" or will GO have two dedicated tracks? The latter may imply extending the bridge piers yet again, as well as adding the spans to the existing but unused third track piers.

Hope to learn more detail on this.

- Paul

Indeed. Just to visualize this from the GO RER Initial Business Case Appendix A-J (2015):

The Heritage Road Layover location per the 2022 EPR:

Note: PDF page 1,159 notes there was a reduction in the Heritage Road Layover design from the 2015 image noted above:

There was also the OLT decision approving the expropriation that spoke about the location:

Yet in the latest image:

From the expropriation notice:

1. Property Req. No. 250590026
NW. 10 Line & RC
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0026 (LT)
Part Lots 16 and 17, Con 10 ESQ; Halton Hills designated as Parts 2 and 3 on
Drawing No. SHT-03-14
2. Property Req. No. 250590027
SW. 10 Line & RC
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0027 (LT)
Part Lots 16 and 17, Con 10 ESQ; Halton Hills/Esquesing designated as Part 1 on
Drawing No. SHT-03-14
3. Property Req. No. 250590063
NE. 10 Line & RC
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0063 (LT)
Part Lot 16, Con 11 ESQ; Halton Hills/Esquesing designated as Parts 1, 3 and 4 on
Drawing No. SHT-03-13
4. Property Req. No. 250590065
SE. 10 Line & RC
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0065 (LT)
Part Lot 16, Con 11 ESQ; Halton Hills/Esquesing designated as Part 1 on Drawing No.
SHT-03-12 and Parts 2 and 5 on Drawing No. SHT-03-13
5. Property Req. No. 250590066
NW. Winston & Wanless
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0066 (LT)
Part Lot 16, Con 11 ESQ; Halton Hills/Esquesing designated as Part 2 on Drawing No.
SHT-03-12 and Parts 6 and 7 on Drawing No. SHT-03-13
6. Property Req. No. 250590067
E. 10444 Winston Blvd
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0067 (LT)
Part Lot 16, Con 11 ESQ; Halton Hills/Esquesing designated as Part 5 on Drawing No.
SHT-03-12
7. Property Req. No. 250590150
W. Winston & Wanless
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0150 (LT)
Part Queen St being Part Road Allowance Between Lots 15 and 16, Con 11; Halton
Hills/Esquesing designated as Part 6 on Drawing No. SHT-03-12
8. Property Req. No. 250590151
N. 10444 Winston Blvd
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0151 (LT)
Part Road Allowance Between Lots 15 and 16, Con 11 ESQ; Halton Hills/Esquesing
designated as Part 3 on Drawing No. SHT-03-12
9. Property Req. No. 250590190
10444 Winston Blvd
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0190 (LT)
Part Lots 12, 13, 14 and 15, Con 11 ESQ; Town of Halton Hills designated as Part 4
on Drawing No. SHT-03-12
10. Property Req. No. 250590415
10852 Winston Blvd
All right, title and interest
PART OF PIN 25059-0415 (LT)
Part Lot 15, Con 11 ESQ; Town of Halton Hills designated as Part 7 on Drawing No.
SHT-03-12[/CODE]

Pacels noted above and the Heritage Road Layover:

 

[TOtramz]

The communities demanded the noise walls, Metrolinx agreed that it would be nice to look out the window and see things, but to your last point taggers painted graffiti on all the clear panels that were there to allow people to see through.

Did they remove the clear panels or are they still there? I would love to be able to see something while riding the Ontario line

 

[Bojaxs]

They are getting the walls because the service profile and noise is being greatly increased. I don't think they mind seeing trains or to your point they wouldn't be living there, but these lines are going from a weekday only rush-hour service to a subway line with loud diesel engines. It would be no different from the community reaction to a street in front of their home all of a sudden becoming a truck route.

What happens when we "eventually" electrify the lines and noise is no longer an issue?

I'm just thinking back to my recent trips to England where it's common to see people's backyards back onto a rail line and noise walls are never even considered. We're talking about rail line that likely sees trains pass by roughly every 8 minutes during the day.

 

[T3G]

What happens when we "eventually" electrify the lines and noise is no longer an issue?

I'm just thinking back to my recent trips to England where it's common to see people's backyards back onto a rail line and noise walls are never even considered. We're talking about rail line that likely sees trains pass by roughly every 8 minutes during the day.

Not to worry, with geniuses like Metrolinx at the helm there is no danger of anyone currently alive still being alive when electrification becomes widespread

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

This is why I keep ranting about scope. GO service planning is not like a zoning debate where the number of floors in a tower may be fluid and bounce around until all concerned find an acceptable landing point.
The GO service plan is information given to GTA communities and individuals who rely on these commitments to make many plans. Finding out that your town is ‘t on the 2WAD grid ought to be hugely controversial if the previous iteration declared that it was. The GO service plan is closer to something signed in blood.
I can’t help but wonder why the opposition parties aren’t all over the delays and walkbacks in the GO plan. While the 905 went solidly blue in the last election, one has to think that some of those seats would swing if residents realised that DoFo had just reneged and effectively scammed them. But maybe I am out of touch with 905 and 915 politics.

- Paul

It's very obvious that they take the voters for granted, and the fact that this isn't publicized doesn't help things. I think the opposition parties have no cachet right now. Newmarket, in particular, keeps supporting these guys when Mulock GO is in development hell. Even Aurora getting the 15 minutes over them was surprising.

On a personal note, I am one of these people. I closed on a place in Barrie a mere month before we learned the ONExpress OOI contract imploded and of the extent GO Expansion is scaled back. Of course responsibility is still mine (ultimately) for jumping the gun a bit before anything was concrete, but still this latest batch of info from MX is really making me reconsider my life choices!

I'll take Barrie line 2-hour AD2W happily. What makes me prickle is the "all-stop" component to that promise. What I haven't heard talked about is any plan to decrease travel time. AFAIKnew, the end goal was express service cutting 20 ish minutes off total travel time. Now it seems we'll get 4 extra stations and 10% faster electric trains which may just about keep Allandale to Union the same travel time as it is today.

Is anyone tracking any work being proposed to speed up that corridor at all? Seems a shame to be planning all this electrification and double tracking but not tackling realignments or infrastructure upgrades where they could really be effective (the multiple 45mph slow zones like north of the Davenport diamond, crossing the 407, and crossing the CN rail corridor, or realignments north of Bradford where it's relatively straight and open farm fields, etc)

Glad your getting your perspective in, I think Barrie should have 30 min service 2WAD all day seven days a week.