Allandale25
Senior Member
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GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Allandale25
Senior Member
Includes a short video.
Allandale25
Senior Member
From the Toronto - East newsletter.
Bojaxs
Active Member
There are so many rail crossings that need to be grade separated on the Stouffville Line.
Aside from no longer impeding traffic. Grade separating a crossing allows the train to travel faster. Correct? So would I be right in assuming for every crossing that gets grade separated, it shaves minutes off the travel time of that line?
Aside from no longer impeding traffic. Grade separating a crossing allows the train to travel faster. Correct? So would I be right in assuming for every crossing that gets grade separated, it shaves minutes off the travel time of that line?
hw621
Senior Member
except that they won't get built in decades...
Northern Light
Superstar
To the first question, the answer is 'sometimes'.
Unsatisfying, I know.
But, for instance, in the case of Steeles, there is a station there.
So trains have to come to a stop no matter what, and re-accelerate from dead-stop.
So this separation will not materially affect speed.
Also, trains are permitted to run, at speed, through protected crossings.
You don't require a grade separation for that.
It would be required for anything approaching high speed rail, but GO is not in that game.
That said, separations may result in greater speeds or their absence in lower speeds at times.
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As to them being built. GO is currently looking at Universal separation of the Stouffville corridor from Unionville south.
I expect you will see that sooner, rather than later.
Though we are certainly several years away, at best, from them all being done.
cbrown2009
Active Member
But isn't it the case that electrification of the line can't (or wouldn't) happen until all the separation work is done??
Northern Light
Superstar
You 100% can run electrified service w/level crossings.
Whether GO would choose to is a different question.
cbrown2009
Active Member
Yes I get that it could. But if ML plans to separate, they wouldn't be planning to string up the catenary until all the planned work is done. And the track is as close to final configuration as possible. Or would they??
drum118
Superstar
You can run electrification service across grade crossing today both in NA and Europe. I have seen it first hand. Grade crossing slow down the trains to a point and as well the area it is in.
Why does a crossing have to be grade separated for electrification??
Can't find my 2014 videos on youtube for 2014 for the same location as this one
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cbrown2009
Active Member
Technically it doesn't, I grant you. But would the corridor be electrified in advance of currently known planned grade separation work? Or would it make more sense, (as it would to me), to do whatever planned work is scheduled first, then electrify. Even if currently planned work does not necessarily include separating every crossing up and down the whole line.
I realize that electrification is still quite a ways down the road yet, so this might be a moot point.
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drum118
Superstar
At $15-$50 million per crossing for grade separation is not cheap with a few that will cost more. At the same time, a number of crossing will have to be close as there is no way to do grade separation in the first place. Guelph is one of those areas just for today general service. Mississauga has 5 crossing that will have to be close off and that doesn't include the Milton Line.
Metrolinx is already 3 years late for starting electrified of lines starting with the UPX.
Just because there is a plan to electrify and a grade separation plan doesn't mean you can't start electrify lines until grade separation is done. Right now, there are only 1 crossing from Union to Bramalea that needs grade separation, but the City of Mississauga wants a pedestrian tunnel to close the crossing and Metrolinx not willing to pay for it.
Once you electrify a line doesn't mean you can't run service while a grade separation is taking place. You run today motor power on those trains until the work is done and then convert back to electrify trains.
smallspy
Senior Member
The number of crossings within a very small, specific distance - or the built form around the ROW even - can affect the speed limits, it's true. The 10mph slow order immediately west of Guelph Station is due to this kind of thing.
But do individual grade crossings affect zone or line speeds? No.
Dan
Andy_in_Toronto
Active Member
Isn’t this slow order west of Guelph railway station already worked on by improving tracks and closing crossings or even is it mitigated by now?
crs1026
Senior Member
True, but grade crossings are maintenance intensive and may need work blocks to fix.. When they develop a defect and work can’t be done immediately, they may attract temporary slow orders.... which can become pretty close to permanent if the maintenance budget is getting stressed. So a line with grade crossings may have some restrictions where a totally grade sepp’d line won’t. That’s not a good reason to eliminate grade crossings, but it’s an operational reality.
I worry more about existing low bridges that may need to be rebuilt before they can be electrified than about new grade separations. Contractors are supposed to know how to work around low hanging wires. Having catenary on a shoofly around a grade separation project is no biggie.
- Paul