GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[crs1026]

Every city and town thought they'd be a viable port with the coming of the Seaway. Today, only Hamilton remains a port of any significance on Lake Ontario, though Lake Erie still has Buffalo, Cleveland, and Ashtabula.

"Port" is a bit of an anachronistic term, kind of like "freight house" on a railway.

Bowmanville, Oshawa, and Clarkson all see considerable shipment by boat, probably more tons this year than ever before. But it's all bulk commodities shipped/delivered by self unloaders. There is not really a wharf or a customs house. Bath and Picton likewise. Even Parry Sound sees a half dozen boats a summer.

Plenty of boats still deliver bulk cargo to the Portlands, and there is a cement plant that sees regular boat traffic. I wouldn't call any of that "port" activity, but it's useful infrastructure to retain for the city. We don't want all that material offloaded in Oshawa, in which case it will have to be trucked into the city. There are "industrial" boat businesses down there too: tugs, scows, dredging contractors. They have to be moored someplace, I doubt the RCYC wants them tied up there ;-) Industrial dock space is no different than employment lands - the City gets jobs from having them.

Toronto may be at the point where we no longer need a Ports Commission or a Harbour Commission or whatever. We probably still need a harbourmaster, just to manage pier allocations and operate the drawbridges, but that could be managed by some City department.

A slip that has rail access seems like something worth retaining. So I hope the rail access is not severed. But it won't be a very busy facility, and that's fine, it's still a worthwhile investment.

- Paul

 

[Streety McCarface]

But it won't be a very busy facility, and that's fine, it's still a worthwhile investment.

- Paul

It should be though, especially for intermodal freight. We shouldn't be relying on the Gardiner to get stuff downtown.

 

[drum118]

Based on what been said a various meetings I have been to for the last 10 years, the City expect most of the current ship loads going to the Portlands will move to Hamilton since it has deeper waters and better docks. The salt and cement areas will remain as is, with a possibility of another cargo site including the shipping channel and turning based. The city has worked with various users to see what is best for everyone as the City want to maintain as many employment jobs there. The rails to the docks will be remove at some future date once Hamilton has become the main port. The amount of ships using the current docks has being declining for a number of decades with Redpath, Cement and salt seeing more ship and why they will remain as employment lands. The roofing company that been there close to 50 years will still be service by rail like it is today.

Future plans call for a bridge over the shipping channel for the future Broadview extension.

As for intermodal, the railway prefer to do what it does today and that leaves the Portlands dock out of the picture.

 

[crs1026]

^I can't see much of a business case for intermodal business at the harbour. The loading equipment is costly. For offshore shipments, the time taken to navigate the Seaway from Montreal will be add more cost than offloading there, or in Atlantic ports. For domestic shipments, loading containers at one point on the Great Lakes and offloading at another would be utterly inefficient for anything other than bulk cargo. Road or rail will prevail.
The value of the rail access in Toronto would be for one-of shipments (locomotives? railcars? Transformers? ) where every mile by road or rail has enormous cost. Bringing a single odd oversize component by road from Hamilton to Toronto might cost more than a year's maintenance of a mile or so of branch line track.

- Paul

 

[urbanyimby]

The next Metrolinx board meeting agenda has a closed item on Barrie GO Train Update:

@smallspy , @crs1026 , would you have any insider knowledge that you could share with us?

 

[drum118]

This is the reply I got to my question on the rail spur for the Toronto Dock

That is an excellent question. It is anticipated that the Harbour Lead Line railway spur will continue to service the Port Lands in the future, with the Toronto Port Authority and Ashbridge's Bay Waste Treatment Facility being the primary clients. In the event that the rail line is not required to service industry and discontinues, the Port Lands Planning Framework envisions the preservation of the rail corridor as a linear naturalized green space

 

[lenaitch]

^I can't see much of a business case for intermodal business at the harbour. The loading equipment is costly. For offshore shipments, the time taken to navigate the Seaway from Montreal will be add more cost than offloading there, or in Atlantic ports. For domestic shipments, loading containers at one point on the Great Lakes and offloading at another would be utterly inefficient for anything other than bulk cargo. Road or rail will prevail.
The value of the rail access in Toronto would be for one-of shipments (locomotives? railcars? Transformers? ) where every mile by road or rail has enormous cost. Bringing a single odd oversize component by road from Hamilton to Toronto might cost more than a year's maintenance of a mile or so of branch line track.

- Paul

I realize it depends on the specific load, but aren't there limitations for oversized/heavy loads existing the Port by rail?

 

[Allandale25]

This is the reply I got to my question on the rail spur for the Toronto Dock

That is an excellent question. It is anticipated that the Harbour Lead Line railway spur will continue to service the Port Lands in the future, with the Toronto Port Authority and Ashbridge's Bay Waste Treatment Facility being the primary clients. In the event that the rail line is not required to service industry and discontinues, the Port Lands Planning Framework envisions the preservation of the rail corridor as a linear naturalized green space

This is an additional reply the City has provided:

Under a settlement reached at the Local Planning Appeal Tribunal regarding Ports Toronto's appeal of Official Plan Amendment 387 (see attached documents), the City is required to maintain the rail line to Ports Toronto's facilities in the Port Lands. The refurbishment and routing of the rail line will be considered as part of the Broadview Extension EA process. Considerations will also be given to Toronto Water's use of the rail line in support of their operations at Ashbridges Bay Treatment Plant. A public consultation process for the EA is yet to begin but will likely commence later in the spring or early summer.

 

[drum118]

This is an additional reply the City has provided:

Strange that my reply is from the city and looks like one hand not aware of the other. Will pass this info onto the person who responded to my question.

 

[smallspy]

I realize it depends on the specific load, but aren't there limitations for oversized/heavy loads existing the Port by rail?

There are some limitations, but they have shipped items as big as hydro transformers into and out of the Port by rail - and very little of the infrastructure that still remains has changed over the past 50 years or so - so whatever they are aren't substantial I would think.

Dan

 

[Fritter]

Strange that my reply is from the city and looks like one hand not aware of the other.

I don't believe you. Governments always know what each department is doing, and are run as a well oiled machine!

 

[Toronto1834]

The next Metrolinx board meeting agenda has a closed item on Barrie GO Train Update:
View attachment 230974
@smallspy , @crs1026 , would you have any insider knowledge that you could share with us?

"There is also this item on the agenda: "1.2 Document Control Update"."

 

[Kitsune]

Board materials are up for Stouffville and Scarborough Junction and other things: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/en/content/documents-stouffville-grade-separations-tpap

The infrastructure part: https://www.metrolinxengage.com/sit...structure_station_-_go_expansion_feb_2020.pdf . It also contains a page on the Don River Layover facility.

The juicy stuff:

Corvette with be turned into a bridge or tunnel - bridge is referred. It seems the grade for the line will start to dip before this crossing.. also seems they are shifting the tracks?

The reason for being below grade ... to get the rail corridor under Danforth road:

And also to facilitate the rail rail grade separation (no conceptual rendering)

... interestingly no mention of modifying the midland underpass.

And st clair - all they are doing is extending the bridge:

note the stouffville tracks start going under immediately after the bridge..

It may be buried in another document about Scarborough GO station being rebuilt as clearly that new track is connecting after the station. There is this little image in the docs that also show the track will connect with lakeshore.. but not where, how or anything technical.. its napkin image !

... this is not going to be cheap.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Great find. Thanks for posting

 

[crs1026]

Another interesting slide about track and switch additions

- Paul