GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[cplchanb]

The term is not specifically defined, multiple sections can constitute a "train". If a single unit tram of multiple sections is a "tram-train", then that is what the Alstom cars for Metrolinx are.

Here's a description that covers some of the T4 stock:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexity_Swift

Just to follow on with the thought process, apart from the fact it's existing infrastructure, why are they still sticking with these low platforms? Aren't high platform trains more advantageous in every way from speed to accessibility? Is it because there's so many platforms to raise that they're settling with low platforms?

 

[steveintoronto]

Just to follow on with the thought process, apart from the fact it's existing infrastructure, why are they still sticking with these low platforms?

Cheaper, lighter and much more widely compatible, especially in North America. Edmonton and Calgary are moving to low floor models for future lines:

Railway Age, Wednesday, April 05, 2017
Calgary, Edmonton adopt low-floor approach
Written by John Thompson, Contributing Editor

The two pioneering Canadian LRT cities, Calgary and Edmonton, located in the western province of Alberta, are both planning a major shift in their design and operating philosophies.

Edmonton, Alberta’s capital, opened its first line in 1978; Calgary followed three years later.

Both systems, from the outset, adopted high-platform boarding. Edmonton’s stations have been somewhat simple and utilitarian, for the most part, apart from those in the subway section, while Calgary’s have tended to be elaborate and expensive.

Edmonton has about three miles of subway, extending from the northwest fringe of downtown to the University of Alberta, south of the center city. This approach was quite costly, and hindered significant extension of the line for a number of years. To this day, Edmonton Transit operates one long line from the northeast to the southern sector, with a short, recently opened branch to the northwest.

Calgary, from the outset, took a different approach to contain costs, utilizing a transit mall instead of a subway in the downtown, and generally limiting tunnels to short sections. Since 1981, Calgary’s system has grown extensively, culminating in two lines that serve the northwest, northeast, western, and southern sections of the city. The system has grown from its original 8 miles to just over 37 miles.
[...]
Both cities have recently decided, since low-floor operations can be implemented at significantly lower cost, to pursue this approach on two completely new lines. These will be completely separate operations from the existing high-floor lines, although transfer will be possible. That said, both Calgary Transit and Edmonton Transit have extensions to the existing high-platform routes on the drawing boards, for future construction.

Another advantage of low-floor LRT is that it can be situated on local streets, on reserved track, with less obtrusive stations more acceptable to local residents.
[...]

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php...algary-edmonton-adopt-low-floor-approach.html

Another advantage, not mentioned in this article, is that RoW, including tunnel, can be built to RER standard and run initially at least, with LRVs. Technically, both RER and LRVs can share the same track, but that brings in regulatory issues in Canada, even though the record of doing so in Europe and a pending case in Australia show a perfect safety record of shared operation.

This is something that Metrolinx may pursue in the future, building tunnels and underground stations to RER standards, so the system is forward compatible at a later date to handle much greater capacities.

 

[dowlingm]

Just to follow on with the thought process, apart from the fact it's existing infrastructure, why are they still sticking with these low platforms? Aren't high platform trains more advantageous in every way from speed to accessibility? Is it because there's so many platforms to raise that they're settling with low platforms?

Tram trains are meant to be able to go from segregated ROW to street running as required. High platforms, with the need for accessibility ramps up and down etc., can be pretty intrusive.

 

[cplchanb]

Tram trains are meant to be able to go from segregated ROW to street running as required. High platforms, with the need for accessibility ramps up and down etc., can be pretty intrusive.

Thing is though, isn't RER main line commuter and not lrt? If the scope of this project supposed to be heavy rail with no intention of light rail would making it high floors from the get go be more advantageous in the long term?

 

[steveintoronto]

Thing is though, isn't RER main line commuter and not lrt?

I think you're missing the forward compatibility aspect. With only rare exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Shore_Line it's a case of LRVs running on RER tracks, not the opposite. (These are termed 'train-trams' as opposed to 'tram-trains').

would making it high floors from the get go be more advantageous in the long term?

For what advantage? If the vehicles are low-floor, like the present GO coaches, it's the number of doors and accessibility to them that determines rate of load/unload, not platform height, which adds complexity and cost, let alone blocking freight operation when passenger operation ceases for the night. The fourth most busy passenger rail route in the US is the San Diego Trolley, all low platform, that runs to the Mexican border as well as around SD proper and suburbs, and freight is run over much of the trackage temporally, very successfully. SD Trolley has been running for almost 40 years. It uses LRVs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley

 

[dowlingm]

Thing is though, isn't RER main line commuter and not lrt? If the scope of this project supposed to be heavy rail with no intention of light rail would making it high floors from the get go be more advantageous in the long term?

I personally see no value in using tram-trains for RER, since they would be no off-ROW usage.

Making RER trains high floor - well, look at UPX with the high floor platform next to the low floor - and that only a 3 car consist. Lots of existing platforms to convert. Great for the construction guys and we all know how well Metrolinx manages construction...

We have a bilevel capable network. Many systems go single level because clearance costs are prohibitive. Let's just get electric bilevel EMUs and get on with it.

 

[steveintoronto]

I personally see no value in using tram-trains for RER, since they would be no off-ROW usage.

For a RoW that can later be used for full sized RER once connected to the extant RER network, or in the case of some cities, on street-running onto network heavy rail. It avoids having to wait for and change onto less regular RER, or RER only at peak, but LRV running all day.

 

[drum118]

I personally see no value in using tram-trains for RER, since they would be no off-ROW usage.

Making RER trains high floor - well, look at UPX with the high floor platform next to the low floor - and that only a 3 car consist. Lots of existing platforms to convert. Great for the construction guys and we all know how well Metrolinx manages construction...

We have a bilevel capable network. Many systems go single level because clearance costs are prohibitive. Let's just get electric bilevel EMUs and get on with it.

Hurontario is a good example having a tram-train service. You can't rule out other places down the road.

You can get RER equipment with lowfloor today

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Barrie? Hourly to 12:30 AM?

Currently there's post-train bus departures at 7:30, 8:30, and 10:30. To change that to rail, and add 3 more departures, you'd need a significant increase in ridership. Also current travel time to Allendale is only 110 to 120 minutes on bus at those times compared to about 100 minutes on rail. So you'd also need a lot more traffic congestion.

Barrie only has population of 141,000 or so. And it's a long way from there to the next population centre. So another answer is, significant urban sprawl.

What % of people in Barrie commute to downtown Toronto? Probably not many with 2-hours of travel. Another possibility is faster trains.

The real answer might be - not in this lifetime. A more realistic scenario is express buses from Aurora (45 minutes) or King City (40 minutes), to meet the RER service from Aurora to Toronto. Union to Aurora on train is currently 49 minutes, and to King City is only 39 minutes. Add in a 10-minute bus connection and you are looking at a total travel time of only 89 minutes.

That's faster than any current trip to Barrie. And if the demand exceeds more than an hourly bus, they can run every 30 minutes, or every 15 minutes, to match the RER service.

One problem with this post: They're already planning hourly off peak service to Barrie.

 

[DSC]

NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING: UNION STATION RAIL CORRIDOR (USRC) EAST ENHANCEMENTS PROJECT
TRANSIT PROJECT ASSESSMENT PROCESS
To keep up with our growing region, Metrolinx, an agency of the Province of Ontario, is transforming the way the region
moves by delivering the largest transit infrastructure program in Canadian history to keep the region moving today and
tomorrow. The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) is now home to nearly 7 million people and heading towards
9 million by 2041. To address the urgent transit needs of the GTHA, the Province of Ontario committed to implement
more GO service and make other infrastructure improvements to the GO system to help create new transit connections
and faster service across the region. By 2025, electric trains will be running every 15 minutes or, all day and in both
directions, within the most heavily travelled sections of the GO network.

THE PROJECT
To support Regional Express Rail, Metrolinx is
completing a Transit Project Assessment
Process (TPAP) that is proposing to expand and
improve the eastern portion of the Union Station
Rail Corridor (USRC), east of Yonge Street to
the Don River, within the City of Toronto. The
plan is to add track capacity (one track to the
north and two tracks to the south of the existing
rail corridor), increase train storage capacity
(Wilson Yard) and modify bridges to
accommodate new tracks:
 South side of Lower Jarvis Street
 North and south side of Lower Sherbourne Street
 North side of Parliament Street
 North side of Cherry Street
 West side of Lower Don River Trail
THE PROCESS
Metrolinx will assess the environmental impacts of this project following the Transit Project Assessment Process, as
prescribed in Ontario Regulation 231/08 made under the Environmental Assessment Act. As part of the TPAP, an
Environmental Project Report will be prepared. This project is currently in the Pre-TPAP Phase.
CONSULTATION
Your participation is an important part of this process. In preparation for the commencement of the TPAP later in 2017,
you are invited to attend the Public Meeting listed below. The project team will be on hand to answer questions and
receive your comments.

Date: Wednesday June 28, 2017
Time: 6:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m. (Presentation to begin at 7:00 p.m.)
Location: Lucie and Thornton Blackburn Conference Centre – Grand Room*
George Brown College Campus
80 Cooperage Street, Toronto, ON

*This location is accessible.
If you would like to be added to our project mailing list, submit a comment or question, or to receive additional
information related to the Project, please contact:
Union Station Rail Corridor East Enhancements
c/o Georgina Collymore
Senior Advisor, Environmental Assessment Communications & Community Relations
20 Bay Street, Suite 600, Toronto, ON
tel: 416-202-4921
e-mail: unionstationeast@metrolinx.com
website: www.metrolinx.com/unionstationeast

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What are the chances that Metrolinx will bend over backwards for public realm improvements along the line of Davenport?

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING: UNION STATION RAIL CORRIDOR (USRC) EAST ENHANCEMENTS PROJECT
TRANSIT PROJECT ASSESSMENT PROCESS
To keep up with our growing region, Metrolinx, an agency of the Province of Ontario, is transforming the way the region
moves by delivering the largest transit infrastructure program in Canadian history to keep the region moving today and
tomorrow. The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA) is now home to nearly 7 million people and heading towards
9 million by 2041. To address the urgent transit needs of the GTHA, the Province of Ontario committed to implement
more GO service and make other infrastructure improvements to the GO system to help create new transit connections
and faster service across the region. By 2025, electric trains will be running every 15 minutes or, all day and in both
directions, within the most heavily travelled sections of the GO network.

THE PROJECT
To support Regional Express Rail, Metrolinx is
completing a Transit Project Assessment
Process (TPAP) that is proposing to expand and
improve the eastern portion of the Union Station
Rail Corridor (USRC), east of Yonge Street to
the Don River, within the City of Toronto. The
plan is to add track capacity (one track to the
north and two tracks to the south of the existing
rail corridor), increase train storage capacity
(Wilson Yard) and modify bridges to
accommodate new tracks:
 South side of Lower Jarvis Street
 North and south side of Lower Sherbourne Street
 North side of Parliament Street
 North side of Cherry Street
 West side of Lower Don River Trail
THE PROCESS
Metrolinx will assess the environmental impacts of this project following the Transit Project Assessment Process, as
prescribed in Ontario Regulation 231/08 made under the Environmental Assessment Act. As part of the TPAP, an
Environmental Project Report will be prepared. This project is currently in the Pre-TPAP Phase.
CONSULTATION
Your participation is an important part of this process. In preparation for the commencement of the TPAP later in 2017,
you are invited to attend the Public Meeting listed below. The project team will be on hand to answer questions and
receive your comments.

Date: Wednesday June 28, 2017
Time: 6:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m. (Presentation to begin at 7:00 p.m.)
Location: Lucie and Thornton Blackburn Conference Centre – Grand Room*
George Brown College Campus
80 Cooperage Street, Toronto, ON

*This location is accessible.
If you would like to be added to our project mailing list, submit a comment or question, or to receive additional
information related to the Project, please contact:
Union Station Rail Corridor East Enhancements
c/o Georgina Collymore
Senior Advisor, Environmental Assessment Communications & Community Relations
20 Bay Street, Suite 600, Toronto, ON
tel: 416-202-4921
e-mail: unionstationeast@metrolinx.com
website: www.metrolinx.com/unionstationeast

Whoa, taking over Wilson Yard eh? Where will TTR park their equipment?

Also, no mention of protection for future underpasses...wonder if it's just too fine a detail to put in the notice.

 

[DSC]

What are the chances that Metrolinx will bend over backwards for public realm improvements along the line of Davenport?

AoD

You can bet that the folks in St Lawrence and Distillery will be pressing for 'something to be done " with the bridges )Jarvis, Sherbourne, Parliament and Cherry) that will be significantly widened when they add new tracks. When the bridges were renovated a few years ago GO promised to beautify them and all that happened was a coat of paint and some slightly better lighting so there is undoubtedly some scepticism!

The plan is below:

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You can bet that the folks in St Lawrence and Distillery will be pressing for 'something to be done " with the bridges )Jarvis, Sherbourne, Parliament and Cherry) that will be significantly widened when they add new tracks. When the bridges were renovated a few years ago GO promised to beautify them and all that happened was a coat of paint and some slightly better lighting so there is undoubtedly some scepticism!

The plan is below:

Good to hear - it seems the only way to get anything out is to hold their feet to the fire.

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

You can bet that the folks in St Lawrence and Distillery will be pressing for 'something to be done " with the bridges )Jarvis, Sherbourne, Parliament and Cherry) that will be significantly widened when they add new tracks. When the bridges were renovated a few years ago GO promised to beautify them and all that happened was a coat of paint and some slightly better lighting so there is undoubtedly some scepticism!

The plan is below:

Okay, this was my other question. They want to relocate the Cherry St Tower. If that's on the table and the province is going to put up the money for it, that would open up a significant barrier to extending the Cherry streetcar.