General railway discussions

[ViewfromtheLake]

This article makes for interesting reading and poses challenging questions. As an investor one appreciates a positive dividend . But at what cost? Precision railroading has delivered those equity returns to the investor. However service, innovation, expansion into a larger piece of the continental movement of freight, and the strategic importance of rail in North America all seem to be questions that should be examined carefully in light of the activist interests of hedge funds.

 

[Allandale25]

Rail regulator approves sale of CN track to U.S. short-line owner

The proposed 'Bear train' will need an agreement with short-line operator Watco to run between Oba and Hearst on the CN right-of-way

www.sootoday.com

 

[dowlingm]

^Interesting. CP certainly wants to put its best foot forward with the folks down there who are impacted by the merger.

The line in question is single track, about 88 miles in length, is signalled for ABS but is not CTC equipped. Not sure if it has PTC - which will be an Amtrak requirement. And about 6 miles of it, in the approach to New Orleans, is joint territory with CN…. that may prove interesting also.

- Paul

If the trains are kept under 59mph that would skirt 49 CFR 256 (KCS New Orleans Sub is currently 49mph), and the CN trackage at Orleans Junction is CN McComb Subdivision, i.e. how Amtrak City of New Orleans accesses the Union Passenger Terminal trackage. So there is an existing CN-Amtrak arrangement which presumably can only result in a relatively minor amount of squawking to add another movement.

 

[dowlingm]

CP Mactier, yes. Replacing the old 1930s-era pair of bridges that had pretty limited clearance.

Dan

@smallspy, it looks like the existing deck over Highway 27 had only one track on it. Do you know if the replacement decks are wide enough for CP to double MacTier given it forms a single track pinch point between the Langstaff bridge and the Rutherford grade crossing?

 

[smallspy]

@smallspy, it looks like the existing deck over Highway 27 had only one track on it. Do you know if the replacement decks are wide enough for CP to double MacTier given it forms a single track pinch point between the Langstaff bridge and the Rutherford grade crossing?

It appears that the replacement structure will only have one track, but it also appears that abutments and footings have been designed to allow for a second span to easily be installed if need be.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

GIO Rail prepares to start service on CN Cayuga Subdivision - Trains

ST. THOMAS, Ontario — One week after the GIO Railway Corp. ran the final train on one Ontario short line, it debuted on another route. On Christmas Eve, Canadian National’s Cayuga Subdivision saw its first train since April 30, 2020, when Ontario Southland discontinued operation on the 30-mile...

www.trains.com

 

[crs1026]

GIO Rail prepares to start service on CN Cayuga Subdivision - Trains

ST. THOMAS, Ontario — One week after the GIO Railway Corp. ran the final train on one Ontario short line, it debuted on another route. On Christmas Eve, Canadian National’s Cayuga Subdivision saw its first train since April 30, 2020, when Ontario Southland discontinued operation on the 30-mile...

www.trains.com

The very interesting line in that article is “installation of a few thousand ties”.

In other words, a substantial investment has been made in the line (currently with lumber at a premium, a single crosstie runs to $100….plus installation).

- Paul

 

[Bordercollie]

The very interesting line in that article is “installation of a few thousand ties”.

In other words, a substantial investment has been made in the line (currently with lumber at a premium, a single crosstie runs to $100….plus installation).

- Paul

So I guess sinc they own the line, the investment is worthwhile, where as leasing it doesn't.
And I assume CN didn't take the money from the leasing fees and invest it into maintaining the line.

 

[dowlingm]

The very interesting line in that article is “installation of a few thousand ties”.

In other words, a substantial investment has been made in the line (currently with lumber at a premium, a single crosstie runs to $100….plus installation).

- Paul

What do concrete ties, which it seems Metrolinx have been migrating to, cost by comparison?

 

[crs1026]

What do concrete ties, which it seems Metrolinx have been migrating to, cost by comparison?

I don't know what ML has been paying, but the traditional benchmark (before the price of wood started to soar, anyways) was that concrete was twice the cost to procure compared to wood. But they have different spacings (fewer concrete ties per mile) and a very different longevity and life cycle cost, so that some sources say concrete is cheaper to install and maintain over the life of the ties, especially in service on a heavily used main line.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Reminds me of Agincourt.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1475568419735019526

 

[lenaitch]

So I guess sinc they own the line, the investment is worthwhile, where as leasing it doesn't.
And I assume CN didn't take the money from the leasing fees and invest it into maintaining the line.

Ya, it's not like being the landlord of an apartment. I don't know the terms of railway lease agreements but I imagine the extend of the owner's 'investment' is paying property taxes. Millions of both public and private money has gone into keeping Huron Central operating - none of it CP's.

 

[roger1818]

Ya, it's not like being the landlord of an apartment. I don't know the terms of railway lease agreements but I imagine the extend of the owner's 'investment' is paying property taxes. Millions of both public and private money has gone into keeping Huron Central operating - none of it CP's.

I agree, it is probably more like leasing a car. The lessor doesn’t pay for all of the required maintenance, that’s the responsibility of the lessee. Similarly the lessee won’t want to pay more on maintenance than absolutely necessary. It all depends on the terms and conditions of the lease of course.

 

[smallspy]

What do concrete ties, which it seems Metrolinx have been migrating to, cost by comparison?

The going rate of a single wood tie is $40 to $100, depending on condition and materials (used versus new hardwood).

The last price I saw was about $1000 per concrete tie.

Then there's installation. As Paul correctly pointed out, you need fewer ties per mile if using concrete. But you also need a lot of mechanical equipment to install them, along with the trained staff to operate them. A gang of 4 can change out and replace a wooden tie in less than 10 minutes with just hand tools.

I agree, it is probably more like leasing a car. The lessor doesn’t pay for all of the required maintenance, that’s the responsibility of the lessee. Similarly the lessee won’t want to pay more on maintenance than absolutely necessary. It all depends on the terms and conditions of the lease of course.

It might be more complex than that even.

If the line is so dilapidated that the railway can't schedule its work into a single shift, it may be worth their while to improve the condition of the line by replacing some ties in order to allow for higher speeds - and thus get the work done within the allotted window.

Dan

 

[Allandale25]

New rail operator to link St. Thomas with Aylmer and Tillsonburg

It's not quite a return to the city's glory days of railroading, however starting this week a third railway op...

www.stthomastoday.ca