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General railway discussions

An email arrived today from an industry group - the number of road motor vehicles in Canada continues to edge higher - now well over 26 million with light vehicles making up over 90 %of that figure. I do not beleive those numbers have changed dramatically over the past years as we edge out of COVID.

So out of curiosity I wondered how many passenger rail cars there might be in Canada?Wikipedia tells me that VIA has 619 passenger cars of all types, a figure that VIA does not seem to share, but let’s work with that for now.

Stats Canada tells me that ten years ago (best data I found) that there were just over 18,800 commuter train cars and 2,966 transit rail cars running in Canada.

I think we have a long way to go yet to bring some transit equity to this country. There is a big mountain to climb out there and it starts with the F-150 as a personal means of transport. We might want to slap a little more carbon tax on those big boys - there is no lack of personal income, or tax write offs, the number of F150 Tremors I see running around is quite startling for example.
 
just east of the creek said:
An email arrived today from an industry group - the number of road motor vehicles in Canada continues to edge higher - now well over 26 million with light vehicles making up over 90 %of that figure. I do not beleive those numbers have changed dramatically over the past years as we edge out of COVID.

So out of curiosity I wondered how many passenger rail cars there might be in Canada?Wikipedia tells me that VIA has 619 passenger cars of all types, a figure that VIA does not seem to share, but let’s work with that for now.

Stats Canada tells me that ten years ago (best data I found) that there were just over 18,800 commuter train cars and 2,966 transit rail cars running in Canada.

I think we have a long way to go yet to bring some transit equity to this country. There is a big mountain to climb out there and it starts with the F-150 as a personal means of transport. We might want to slap a little more carbon tax on those big boys - there is no lack of personal income, or tax write offs, the number of F150 Tremors I see running around is quite startling for example.
Click to expand...
The issue lies in the lack of a national transportation system or strategy. Also even if you take the train, to complete your last mile journey you need a car. More on demand transit partnerships are required to bridge the gap. As well as not just a national rail transportation service but also a bus or some other transportation system. Getting to Napanee is great but how to you get from the train station to the lake? You might as well drive. That's the problem.
 
You are very correct, and I did not incorporate that into my blurb. And your last point is very valid as I will attest to. I presume this is mainly a federal issue of program, financial and regulatory leadership and the provinces will play poor (or opt out) as they see fit. It is just an enormous country of scattered populations, much as the USA, and expecting delivery of service on a like scale in all corners may be beyond realistic.
 
just east of the creek said:
An email arrived today from an industry group - the number of road motor vehicles in Canada continues to edge higher - now well over 26 million with light vehicles making up over 90 %of that figure. I do not beleive those numbers have changed dramatically over the past years as we edge out of COVID.

So out of curiosity I wondered how many passenger rail cars there might be in Canada?Wikipedia tells me that VIA has 619 passenger cars of all types, a figure that VIA does not seem to share, but let’s work with that for now.

Stats Canada tells me that ten years ago (best data I found) that there were just over 18,800 commuter train cars and 2,966 transit rail cars running in Canada.

I think we have a long way to go yet to bring some transit equity to this country. There is a big mountain to climb out there and it starts with the F-150 as a personal means of transport. We might want to slap a little more carbon tax on those big boys - there is no lack of personal income, or tax write offs, the number of F150 Tremors I see running around is quite startling for example.
Click to expand...
The problem is everyone thinks we must have all trains full at all times in order for it to be worth adding. They also need to be profitable.
 
just east of the creek said:
An email arrived today from an industry group - the number of road motor vehicles in Canada continues to edge higher - now well over 26 million with light vehicles making up over 90 %of that figure. I do not beleive those numbers have changed dramatically over the past years as we edge out of COVID.

So out of curiosity I wondered how many passenger rail cars there might be in Canada?Wikipedia tells me that VIA has 619 passenger cars of all types, a figure that VIA does not seem to share, but let’s work with that for now.

Stats Canada tells me that ten years ago (best data I found) that there were just over 18,800 commuter train cars and 2,966 transit rail cars running in Canada.

I think we have a long way to go yet to bring some transit equity to this country. There is a big mountain to climb out there and it starts with the F-150 as a personal means of transport. We might want to slap a little more carbon tax on those big boys - there is no lack of personal income, or tax write offs, the number of F150 Tremors I see running around is quite startling for example.
Click to expand...
I was in Edmonton last week. You want to talk about "pickup truck culture"?

I'm not against pickup trucks. They're a utilitarian vehicle that should be used for work. But why you lifting your GMC sierra 6ft off the ground? What line of work are you in that requires you to do that to your truck?

Saw more customized, large pickup trucks in Edmonton than I did in Calgary.
 
Bordercollie said:
Also even if you take the train, to complete your last mile journey you need a car.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't take the GO train or GO bus as often as I do if it wasn't for the parking at Oakville GO station. It would take 15-20 minutes for me to get to a GO station via Oakville transit (not including time to walk and wait at the bus stop) vs 5-7 minutes just to drive to the station.

Last mile transit seems to be the biggest issue in Canada. I guess part of the reason is the design of our suburbs which force our city buses to drive along windy roads that make for longer trips. I was just thinking how transit is actually pretty good in the GTHA, so long as you have a car to drive to the stations and parking is available.
 
Bojaxs said:
I wouldn't take the GO train or GO bus as often as I do if it wasn't for the parking at Oakville GO station. It would take 15-20 minutes for me to get to a GO station via Oakville transit (not including time to walk and wait at the bus stop) vs 5-7 minutes just to drive to the station.

Last mile transit seems to be the biggest issue in Canada. I guess part of the reason is the design of our suburbs which force our city buses to drive along windy roads that make for longer trips. I was just thinking how transit is actually pretty good in the GTHA, so long as you have a car to drive to the stations and parking is available.
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Last mile is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is outside of the Quebec City - Windsor corridor, you cannot get around outside of your city without flying,.
 
micheal_can said:
Last mile is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is outside of the Quebec City - Windsor corridor, you cannot get around outside of your city without flying,.
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I get that. But I still think "last mile" is the biggest issue with transit in Canada. Because it would involve having to completely rethink and redesign our neighborhoods/ suburbs in order to make them more transit accessible.
 
Bojaxs said:
I get that. But I still think "last mile" is the biggest issue with transit in Canada. Because it would involve having to completely rethink and redesign our neighborhoods/ suburbs in order to make them more transit accessible.
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Fixing our neighbourhoods would be good to fix transit. Cul de sacs do no good.
 
just east of the creek said:
An email arrived today from an industry group - the number of road motor vehicles in Canada continues to edge higher - now well over 26 million with light vehicles making up over 90 %of that figure. I do not beleive those numbers have changed dramatically over the past years as we edge out of COVID.

So out of curiosity I wondered how many passenger rail cars there might be in Canada?Wikipedia tells me that VIA has 619 passenger cars of all types, a figure that VIA does not seem to share, but let’s work with that for now.

Stats Canada tells me that ten years ago (best data I found) that there were just over 18,800 commuter train cars and 2,966 transit rail cars running in Canada.

I think we have a long way to go yet to bring some transit equity to this country. There is a big mountain to climb out there and it starts with the F-150 as a personal means of transport. We might want to slap a little more carbon tax on those big boys - there is no lack of personal income, or tax write offs, the number of F150 Tremors I see running around is quite startling for example.
Click to expand...

Be very careful about your data sources here. You may not be collecting apples to apples data. The data sources may be including or excluding things like LRT and transit vehicles vs intercity vs commuter rail.

Plus, I'm not sure that fleet size conveys the big picture. A good example is the change in the TTC streetcar fleet, which has transitioned from CLRv and ALRV to a slightly smaller number of much longer LRV's. Is that a reduction in fleet size? Not really. Similarly, the growth in artic and double deck bus fleets may not show big numbers of vehicles, but the seat miles in that may be quite different. VIA's fleet replacement may not show huge changes in fleet size, but the higher reliability of new trains may again translate to more seat miles.

Railways try very hard to do more with less. I am sure trucking does likewise. The number of private autos is misleading - people may be keeping their private autos while using transit more. That's a function of individual decisions around disposable income and utility. Would we be happier if every Albertan owned a Honda Fit instead of a F150? Not really - if the road network isn't reduced in cost or modal share.

You use the term "transit equity"... I am not well read enough to know if this is really a thing - care to cite a source or two ? - but it strikes me as a very poor lens to use to make decisions about transportation infrastructure. Across Canada there are huge differences between transit systems' capitalization and scale of operation, even among similar sized communities. If Fredericton's transit system is bigger or smaller than Saskatoon's, or their fare structure is not the same, do we really see that as a matter of equity? Too many other things at play that may create those differences.

Canada's productivity is lagging, and it is very worthwhile to ask whether we have got the individual mobility vs communal aspects of transportation correct. But we need to find opportunities and grow these selectively, rather than dilute our investment gains by rolling out things where the return is low. There needs to be winners and losers.

- Paul
 
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micheal_can said:
Last mile is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is outside of the Quebec City - Windsor corridor, you cannot get around outside of your city without flying,.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to say that you are looking at it wrong. Nobody is going to take a train from Halifax to Toronto even if it's high speed. It's not economical.

And you have to start with the most concentrated area first. If we can't solve it in the corridor then there is no hope anywhere else.
 
Bordercollie said:
Also even if you take the train, to complete your last mile journey you need a car. More on demand transit partnerships are required to bridge the gap. As well as not just a national rail transportation service but also a bus or some other transportation system. Getting to Napanee is great but how to you get from the train station to the lake? You might as well drive. That's the problem.
Click to expand...

If/when we get HFR in place, I wonder if one of the rental car agencies would take up the torch to keep a fleet at the stations, like they do at airports?

Also, those car-share programs where you can pick up and drop off at multiple (or any) locations around a city are great, but they're all way too local for travelers to take advantage of. An agency with provincial (or even federal) scope could be helpful here. For all I know however, these agencies have already run their business cases for that, and decided that it wasn't worth their while. One can dream...
 
Bordercollie said:
I'm sorry to say that you are looking at it wrong. Nobody is going to take a train from Halifax to Toronto even if it's high speed. It's not economical.

And you have to start with the most concentrated area first. If we can't solve it in the corridor then there is no hope anywhere else.
Click to expand...
What about Moncton to Halifax? Or even Truro to Halifax?

Or what about Calgary to Banff ?

I would agree with your thinking if one of the largest cities in Canada wasn't cut off from the rest of Canada's passenger rail network.
 
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