News   Jul 12, 2024
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

This is the worst. Campbell is on Twitter this morning claiming the trump card because he drove Bloor this morn and didn't see a cyclist. What a buffoon.
Aha, because this road without bike infrastructure doesn't have many cyclists, then of course, if we put infrastructure on it, it also won't have cyclists. You know, simple logic ;)
Given how many pedestrians are slaughtered at intersections, they police need to stop overplaying the mid-block thing.
Crossing mid-block is perfectly legal - and if no cars are coming is safer than at an intersection.
I find my most dangerous moments crossing are crossing at a traffic light with a walk signal. Cars turning right (or sometimes even left) with the parallel green are often not looking where they're going. I'd much rather jaywalk when I know exactly what every car is doing.
 
A big part of "bike friendliness" is not just the infrastructure (but of course that's important too, no doubt), but also mindset having people be used to cyclists themselves and drivers having the proper mentality towards cyclists as well as cyclists towards drivers. A bike-friendly city is one where people expect cyclists and assume that bikes belong on the road alongside cars, being fully aware to watch out for them and are cognizant of them.
 
True enough ... and part of making that happen is the proper infrastructure so people can get used to seeing bikes. The better the infrastructure, the more people will cycle, and the more the mindset will happen.
 
I'm just hoping that Bloor is well enough used to solidify bike lanes as "serious" transport infrastructure. Seeing thousands of bikes might be enough to get some of the naysayers on board with building a proper biking network.
 
The guy from Remenyi Music said he'd never sold a piano to someone on a bike (as if he could tell). I guess people just carry them on the subway or stuff them in the back of their car. They're also near a huge parking garage and the subway, plus most of what they sell is portable.

Yes, like someone would chose to go and buy a piano during rush hour and move it at that time. Perhaps they need to take a pointer from Steinway.

AoD
 
The guy from Remenyi Music said he'd never sold a piano to someone on a bike (as if he could tell). I guess people just carry them on the subway or stuff them in the back of their car. They're also near a huge parking garage and the subway, plus most of what they sell is portable.
Interesting. I've read comments elsewhere from his customers ... who bike. I guess he doesn't know who his customers are as well as he claims to. And wouldn't ANYONE buying a piano have it delivered, so how they get to the store to choose their piano is irrelevant?
 
Interesting. I've read comments elsewhere from his customers ... who bike. I guess he doesn't know who his customers are as well as he claims to. And wouldn't ANYONE buying a piano have it delivered, so how they get to the store to choose their piano is irrelevant?

Remenyi's line of thought was perhaps even more bizarre than either Holyday or Peruzza's—it was truly a race to the fact-finding bottom.

And, yes, to an earlier comment, I believe it was Campbell who asked during the hearing where Harbord St. is despite feeling adequately prepared to render the judgment that cyclists should be fine with whatever's there.
 
The guy from Remenyi Music said he'd never sold a piano to someone on a bike (as if he could tell). I guess people just carry them on the subway or stuff them in the back of their car. They're also near a huge parking garage and the subway, plus most of what they sell is portable.

The woman who runs the crepe restaurant near Bloor and Spadina proposed some sort of compromise. She apparently rides a bike but is notorious for ripping off students from France who work for her temporarily.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-paths-in-plateau-mont-royal/article27980527/

If Montreal is any indicator, local businesses will suffer due to lack of parking. Undoubtedly businesses that are more dependent on drivers (like the music store) will suffer most. Even if you think that only a small percentage of customers drive, losing 10% of customers would kill a lot of small businesses that are operating on razor-thin margins.
 
Okay, one by one, quite easily:
> There are mountains of data from cities around the world to refute the assertion that protected bike lanes are safer than so-called "regular" bike lanes, which is unsurprising because the latter is literally just paint on a road. The argument, raised at committee today, that data from cities other than Toronto need not apply is narrow-minded and provincial at best. I think you have to try pretty hard to (randomly, and confusingly) hate on bike lanes to actually accept that physical separation from cars that may hit cyclists provides more safety than the lack thereof; employing even the simplest form of logic would demand one conclude otherwise.

Can anyone link to a high-quality study proving that there is a significant improvement in safety with separated bike lanes vs no bike lane? Even if there is a small improvement, it is hard for me to believe that riding a bike isn't a lot more dangerous than other methods of transportation (e.g. being a pedestrian, driving or taking the TTC).

Certainly Toronto Public Health clearly shows that unseparated bike lanes (like the ones on College St) and "sharrows" are NOT safe.
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-paths-in-plateau-mont-royal/article27980527/

If Montreal is any indicator, local businesses will suffer due to lack of parking. Undoubtedly businesses that are more dependent on drivers (like the music store) will suffer most. Even if you think that only a small percentage of customers drive, losing 10% of customers would kill a lot of small businesses that are operating on razor-thin margins.

I think it's entirely possible that business owners such as Remenyi are misunderstanding the relevance of the point in the purchase process customers frequent his store (and, as a result, the mode of transportation it's important to facilitate good infrastructure for). It should come as no surprise to anyone who's spent any amount of time on Bloor that foot traffic is greatest from pedestrians and cyclists, and not from cars.

If people want to buy a piano, not being able to visit his store because they can't park directly out front is not going to stop them from buying a piano. That's silly. Similarly, it's not reasonable to expect that people otherwise not expecting to purchase a piano will be casually driving down Bloor one sunny Saturday, pull up in front of Remenyi, feel moved to buy a piano, and expect to drive off with it in one fell swoop.

For every example similar to the one in Montreal referenced above, there are more studies that suggest that revenue for businesses along stretches where protected bike lanes were installed increased, which is of course to be expected as a result of the correlation and causality between more people being easily able to access a business, then actually accessing it, and completing purchases.

Cases in point:
> This Citylab article points to:
// Portland, where 78 businesses surveyed found that are cyclists spend "...similar amounts or more, on average, than their counterparts using automobiles."
// New York City, where cyclists spend, on average, $163 per week vs. automobile drivers, at $143 per week
// York Avenue, in Los Angeles, where sales tax revenue among businesses along that section from after the installation of bike lanes was higher on the section with the bike lanes vs. the section without the bike lanes
// Similar cases in Seattle, Washington; Davis, California; Melbourne, Australia that I can't be bothered to quote the details of because they all show the same thing, which is an increase in revenue in favour of the pro-bike lane installation crowd.

And, for further reading:
> This People for Bikes protected bike lane stats library, which includes data points that demonstrate positive economic activity from Salt Lake City; Indianapolis; Denmark; Union Square in NYC; 9th Ave. in NYC; Columbus Ave. in NYC; etc.
> This Triple Pundit article pointing to a massive increase in revenue on Magnolia St. in Fort Worth, Texas
> This Co.Exist article entitled "Want To Make Money? Build a Business on a Bike Lane"
> This CycleTO article entitled "Are bike lanes good for business?"

And so on and so on.

As noted in a few of those articles, studies that purport to show the opposite effects are often wrought with problems, including sampling bias. Which is why we need to support and implement pilot projects that use measurable, objective, salient data points to make conclusions. As with the Bloor bike lanes pilot project.
 
Can anyone link to a high-quality study proving that there is a significant improvement in safety with separated bike lanes vs no bike lane? Even if there is a small improvement, it is hard for me to believe that riding a bike isn't a lot more dangerous than other methods of transportation (e.g. being a pedestrian, driving or taking the TTC).

Certainly Toronto Public Health clearly shows that unseparated bike lanes (like the ones on College St) and "sharrows" are NOT safe.
If you think it's dangerous to bike, then don't bike. I feel perfectly safe riding a bike in Toronto, though separated bike lanes would make me feel safer.
 
Can anyone link to a high-quality study proving that there is a significant improvement in safety with separated bike lanes vs no bike lane? Even if there is a small improvement, it is hard for me to believe that riding a bike isn't a lot more dangerous than other methods of transportation (e.g. being a pedestrian, driving or taking the TTC).

Certainly Toronto Public Health clearly shows that unseparated bike lanes (like the ones on College St) and "sharrows" are NOT safe.

The argument that biking may currently be more dangerous than walking or taking public transit is, or at least should be, wonderful proof of the need for better infrastructure.

> In this NYC Columbus Ave. report, the construction of protected bike lanes: decreased crashes by 36%; increased cycling by 56% on weekdays
> Protected bike lanes reduce bike-related intersection injuries by about 75 percent compared to comparable crossings without infrastructure.
Harris et al, 2013 - "Comparing the effects of infrastructure on bicycling injury at intersections and non-intersections using a case–crossover design." Injury Prevention
> Study: Protected Bike Lanes Reduce Injury Risk Up to 90 percent
> Protected Bike Lanes 7 Times More Effective Than Painted Ones, Survey Says
 
If you think it's dangerous to bike, then don't bike. I feel perfectly safe riding a bike in Toronto, though separated bike lanes would make me feel safer.

"If you think it's dangerous to bike, then don't bike" is a terrible method upon which to judge the efficacy of infrastructure, or the lack thereof.

How about "let's conduct a pilot project to assess the impact of the installation of protected cycle lanes on a range of factors and, if the data supports it, construct permanent infrastructure that enhances the safety of cyclists", instead? Doesn't that feel better?
 
"If you think it's dangerous to bike, then don't bike" is a terrible method upon which to judge the efficacy of infrastructure, or the lack thereof.

How about "let's conduct a pilot project to assess the impact of the installation of protected cycle lanes on a range of factors and, if the data supports it, construct permanent infrastructure that enhances the safety of cyclists", instead? Doesn't that feel better?
I agree. I'm just pissed off at andrewpmk because he's used the "It's never going to be safe to bike in Toronto" argument many times before.
 

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