G-20 Summit in Toronto

[Prometheus The Supremo]

for a government that prides its self on fiscal conservatism, this is a bit confusing. i wonder how this is resonating with conservative voters and how it will affect the outcome of the next election?

 

[cfloryan]

for a government that prides its self on fiscal conservatism, this is a bit confusing. i wonder how this is resonating with conservative voters and how it will affect the outcome of the next election?

Well... it's not resonating with me. And they're fiscally conservative EXCEPT when it comes to the military and "security." Conservatives have had this historically creepy obsession with all things military and big brotherish. It just doesn't make sense to me. How does a low tax philosophy somehow come packaged together with the gun and military thing?? And it's not just here, it's consistent with conservatives globally. I'll still vote for them for low taxes and small government, so long as they don't creep me out too much.

 

[jn_12]

Well... it's not resonating with me. And they're fiscally conservative EXCEPT when it comes to the military and "security." Conservatives have had this historically creepy obsession with all things military and big brotherish. It just doesn't make sense to me. How does a low tax philosophy somehow come packaged together with the gun and military thing?? And it's not just here, it's consistent with conservatives globally. I'll still vote for them for low taxes and small government, so long as they don't creep me out too much.

Military Industrial Complex. Not as relevant to Canada, but certainly has a huge role in American politics.

 

[ganjavih]

Pix from here:

This only further serves to give anti-G-20 demonstrators a bad name. I hope all the vandals get caught. So far they've arrested two.

I bet most of these bonehead vandalizers couldn't even articulate what it is they don't like about the G20.

 

[androiduk]

While photographing (I used to say shooting but I'm not gonna say that anymore) in Union Station I noticed they took the panels of all of the garbage cans. No stone left unturned.

 

[LenzrBen]

I feel like Ignatieff and the Liberals could really use this to their advantage here. At a family dinner recently, my uncle suggested Ignatieff should even take this issue to the polls and see how Harper does. Although, I find that to be a bit extreme (and probably wouldn't help the Liberals win a national election), it's clear in the recent acts of vandalism along with the outcry on the web and from local papers that the costs are truly exceeding any immediate benefit to Toronto. Did it benefit Pittsburgh at all?

 

[TrickyRicky]

I'm not one to give serious attention to news items such as the G8 meeting but I would say that the coverage from Pittsburgh was fairly positive. There were a number of articles and news features both here and in the US that reflected Pittsburgh (a city not on the radar screen of most people in the US let alone the world) in a positive light.

Given the audience I suspect Toronto will be featured in a similar fashion. Keep in mind the audience. Cities and business in the US and Europe are reeling. The financial system and construction and real estate markets here will be painted positively (deserving or not). Toronto may be viewed as somewhat unrefined and a bit of a backwater by the global elite but they will be very interested in how we (high unemployment aside) did not get our asses handed to us in the last few years.

As for protesters and violence, the fact is that globalization protesters (perhaps undeservedly) have I believe been largely discredited in the eyes of the general public in most developed nations. The bleeding will lead as it always does but I don't think you can discount the "why no ass handed to them" overarching story.

 

[typezed]

On Saturday morning I was standing in Union Station waiting for some people to accompany me for Doors Open. Union Station was a venue, and we were thinking of taking a tour there (something we didn't manage to do because they had the tours restricted to 30 people three times a day). Our scheduled meeting place was at the east end of the hall, beside the Scotiabank ATMs. I arrived early, as I usually do, and was leaning against the sill of the window there. Recently I've taken to sketching people and gestures while waiting places or on the subway. I'd been doing that for about 20 minutes when I was approached by two security officers. Two, as if they were preparing for the necessity of throwing me out. The first officer asked me if I could tell him my purpose for being in Union Station that day. Nice Doors Open attitude, I thought, and it is a train station, where people are sitting around waiting for people or trains all the time, but I simply answered, "I'm waiting for people, we're going to do the Doors Open". But he still wasn't satisfied with that, he wanted to know what I was doing with the book. "Doodling," I said, flipping the page of my scratches towards him. "Oh, doodling," he said. "Good, okay", and they let me be. I really wished I had asked them what they thought I could have possibly been doing in my book that might be so potentially harmful to that public space.

If Toronto is turned, even for two days, into anything resembling a police state, with blocks of the city fenced off from its citizens, and people being regularly interrogated as to their purpose for being where they are, it will be completely legitimate for the other parties to use the pictures and stories and memories of the indignities to ensure that the Conservatives can't be elected for the next twenty years. Nevermind that we could have extended the transit network for the cost of having all these officers ordering people about. But perhaps the rest of the country won't really see the danger of all that authority, and might even believe the city folk have it coming to them.

 

[Darwinkgo]

On Saturday morning I was standing in Union Station waiting for some people to accompany me for Doors Open. Union Station was a venue, and we were thinking of taking a tour there (something we didn't manage to do because they had the tours restricted to 30 people three times a day). Our scheduled meeting place was at the east end of the hall, beside the Scotiabank ATMs. I arrived early, as I usually do, and was leaning against the sill of the window there. Recently I've taken to sketching people and gestures while waiting places or on the subway. I'd been doing that for about 20 minutes when I was approached by two security officers. Two, as if they were preparing for the necessity of throwing me out. The first officer asked me if I could tell him my purpose for being in Union Station that day. Nice Doors Open attitude, I thought, and it is a train station, where people are sitting around waiting for people or trains all the time, but I simply answered, "I'm waiting for people, we're going to do the Doors Open". But he still wasn't satisfied with that, he wanted to know what I was doing with the book. "Doodling," I said, flipping the page of my scratches towards him. "Oh, doodling," he said. "Good, okay", and they let me be. I really wished I had asked them what they thought I could have possibly been doing in my book that might be so potentially harmful to that public space.

If Toronto is turned, even for two days, into anything resembling a police state, with blocks of the city fenced off from its citizens, and people being regularly interrogated as to their purpose for being where they are, it will be completely legitimate for the other parties to use the pictures and stories and memories of the indignities to ensure that the Conservatives can't be elected for the next twenty years. Nevermind that we could have extended the transit network for the cost of having all these officers ordering people about. But perhaps the rest of the country won't really see the danger of all that authority, and might even believe the city folk have it coming to them.

Sketching floor plans with security camera locations would be my guess. Even on a normal day (ie not pre G-20) I could see being approached for lets say seemingly loitering without purpose.

 

[AGTO]

Sketching floor plans with security camera locations would be my guess.

Anything to excuse them eh?
Are cameras banned from public places now?

 

[kEiThZ]

Well... it's not resonating with me. And they're fiscally conservative EXCEPT when it comes to the military and "security." Conservatives have had this historically creepy obsession with all things military and big brotherish. It just doesn't make sense to me. How does a low tax philosophy somehow come packaged together with the gun and military thing?? And it's not just here, it's consistent with conservatives globally. I'll still vote for them for low taxes and small government, so long as they don't creep me out too much.

Except that, if they had asked the security services, I am fairly sure, they would have all recommended holding such meetings outside Toronto. Aside from the cost, it's a nightmare to plan for enough security for such events in major cities. And the military is already overtaxed with Afghanistan, coming off the Olympics, Haiti, etc. The military has not seen this high an operational tempo since World War II. And yet this all comes in a year of budget freezes and cutbacks (even for the CF). This is one more tasking,the military would probably rather not have.

 

[kEiThZ]

Anything to excuse them eh?
Are cameras banned from public places now?

No. But security officials have always had a right to detain an individual or prohibit certain activities if they suspect he is a security threat. Might be new to Toronto but in Ottawa, people are detained quite often if they start filming federal buildings (if it appears to be anything beyond conventional tourist behaviour).

Usually though it's suspicious stuff. Taking pictures of buildings that don't seem to have any architectural or public significance. Attempting to photograph entrances/exits, security fittings (cameras, alarms, barricades, etc.), general layouts (map scouting kind of...), tracking people going in and out, etc. are all behaviours that might earn you a short chat with the police or CSIS. While not as stringent, similar conventions apply to public places.

 

[Darwinkgo]

Except that, if they had asked the security services, I am fairly sure, they would have all recommended holding such meetings outside Toronto. Aside from the cost, it's a nightmare to plan for enough security for such events in major cities. And the military is already overtaxed with Afghanistan, coming off the Olympics, Haiti, etc. The military has not seen this high an operational tempo since World War II. And yet this all comes in a year of budget freezes and cutbacks (even for the CF). This is one more tasking,the military would probably rather not have.

Where? G20 is a magnitude above the G8, it can only realistically be done in Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal.

 

[nfitz]

Where? G20 is a magnitude above the G8, it can only realistically be done in Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal.

Perhaps ... but hosting it in a building adjacent to the main railway tracks through the city, adjacent to a subway line, and next to a busy sports stadium at the last minute when the city is already double-booked during the tourist season is asking for problems. The only way to adequately protect the site from large explosives is to shut down railway line, and perhaps even the subway line.

They could saved a lot of money and built a temporary hotel facility on an air-force base somewhere. Or even Dowsview.

 

[khris]

Our new downtown. Where we have garbage bags on our utility poles. Taken June 1, 2010 by me.