Flooding in NB and Quebec. Is it time to stop building on flood plains?

[lenaitch]

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-3-2019-1.5121329/military-aid-should-only-be-a-last-resort-for-natural-disaster-relief-says-expert-1.5121463

I'm not a deep thinker in this area (or most others for that matter), but I don't follow the logic in the attached article. Our military strength is ~96,000 with about 2,000 currently on deployment (some renewable, some not) so it doesn't appear that they are over-stretched in responding to the floods. I don't understand the benefit of recreating another beareaucracy of personnel and equipment across the country. Many of the CF personnel currently engaged are reservists who will go back to their regular lives once the flooding has passed. Also, it is one of the few interactions that many Canadians have with their military, however unfortunate the circumstances.

 

[Admiral Beez]

96,000 CAF members is the entire enlisted staff, from doctors to kitchen staff, from generals to sailors. For combat soldiers, both full time and reserve we have at best 4 to 5 thousand, tops.

 

[lenaitch]

96,000 CAF members is the entire enlisted staff, from doctors to kitchen staff, from generals to sailors. For combat soldiers, both full time and reserve we have at best 4 to 5 thousand, tops.

Try, but they are 'task-able' bodies to events such as these; besides, trades like comms, mess, mechanics, etc. are needed to support them. I don't think sandbag tossing is a recognized trade.. Getting some NDHQ folks' hands dirty (if any of them are engaged - they might be busy fighting over parking spots) every now and again might do them some good.

 

[Northern Light]

Try, but they are 'task-able' bodies to events such as these; besides, trades like comms, mess, mechanics, etc. are needed to support them. I don't think sandbag tossing is a recognized trade.. Getting some NDHQ folks' hands dirty (if any of them are engaged - they might be busy fighting over parking spots) every now and again might do them some good.

I also dislike the self-serving argument of the RMC professor because it clearly posits that what we really need is to be sending more troops abroad on combat missions.

With respect to said professor, I'm not convinced that is either a good use of our military, nor that the broader public would prioritize it.

Defense of the realm is their chief responsibility from my perspective, against any and all threats, including mother nature.

Outside of assisting in the defense of a treaty ally against foreign assault, I would suggest that foreign disaster relief would be something the public would support.

Which means the military would retain the same capabilities and equipment for that latter task as it would for domestic intervention in similar circumstances.

Rather than arguing for a civilian force for such things, the more well placed argument would be avoiding or substantially mitigating the scale of such disasters in the first place; such that
there is either no need for intervention or one that can be handled entirely by existing, civilian response agencies.

(re the above, I mean removing people and buildings from floodplains and upholding higher building code standards re flood, fire, and earthquake, so as to mitigate losses)

 

[steveintoronto]

Defense of the realm is their chief responsibility from my perspective, against any and all threats, including mother nature.

The only difference in the case of the US (ironic you spelled it "defense") is that the US states send in the National Guard (state controlled). The US military is in charge of far more than Canada's, not least the waterways and more:

The Corps regulations broadly define two important terms, “waters of the United States” for the purpose of Section 404 of the Clean Water Act; and “navigable waters of the United States” for Section 10 of the Rivers and Harbors Act.

What are the Limits of the Corps Jurisdiction? - Army Corps of ...
www.nae.usace.army.mil/portals/74/docs/regulatory/.../jurisdictional_limits_brochure.pd...

Even the Air National Guard is charged with aiding in natural disasters:
THE ROLE OF THE AIR NATIONAL GUARD WHEN NATURAL DISASTERS STRIKE
https://sakeraviation.com/the-role-of-the-air-national-guard-when-natural-disasters-strike/

I also dislike the self-serving argument of the RMC professor

Not to mention he doesn't like the concept of soldiers and airmen getting dirt on their uniforms, let alone under their fingernails.

USNI News Video: How the Navy, Marines Help After a Natural Disaster. ... Shortly after the storm passed, the U.S. sent warships with heavy lift helicopters to assist groups on the ground to feed and provide medical care those affected as part of the Humanitarian Assistance Disaster Relief of the Navy and Marine Corps.Oct 24, 2016

USNI News Video: How the Navy, Marines Help After a Natural Disaster
https://news.usni.org/2016/10/24/usni-news-video-navy-marines-help-natural-disaster

When disaster strikes, US military assets often key to relief efforts ...
https://www.stripes.com/.../when-disaster-strikes-us-military-assets-often-key-to-relief-...
Nov 16, 2013 - When disaster strikes, US military assets often key to relief efforts ... rushing to the aidof hundreds of thousands suffering from a natural disaster. ... The U.S. humanitarian assistanceoften includes Marines on the ground within ...

Disaster response is what the US military does
https://www.pri.org/.../when-disaster-strikes-its-us-military-thats-often-most-capable-re...
Sep 29, 2017 - When disaster strikes, it's the US military that's often the most ... to natural disastersas a military, not only in the United States, but overseas as well. ... provide support, intelligence, logistics assistance like food or water, shelter ...
[/quote]

USNI News Video: How the Navy, Marines Help After a Natural Disaster
https://news.usni.org › Budget Industry
▶ 3:07
Oct 24, 2016 - Uploaded by USNI News Video
USNI News Video: How the Navy, Marines Help After a Natural Disaster. ... Shortly after the storm passed ...

How The US Military Responds To A Hurricane, In Photos - Task ...
https://taskandpurpose.com/hurricane-harvey-military-response
Aug 25, 2017 - Here's how the branches spring into action when a natural disaster looms ... Ahead of Hurricane Harvey, airmen help to track the storm's path to ...


Disaster Relief Financial Assistance - Interest Free Loans | NMCRS
https://www.nmcrs.org/pages/disaster-relief
The Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society provides financial assistance via interest ... Financial help to recover from natural disasters ... Bring your military ID card.

[...and so on...]

Perhaps some RMC Profs could be used as sandbags to plug the holes in the dike?

 

[Johnny Au]

96,000 CAF members is the entire enlisted staff, from doctors to kitchen staff, from generals to sailors. For combat soldiers, both full time and reserve we have at best 4 to 5 thousand, tops.

...and some of them play musical instruments.

Many military forces around the world, Canada included, have military marching bands.

 

[AlbertC]

 

[Kraylin]

The time to stop building on flood plains was the year they were identified as flood plains.

 

[steveintoronto]

It gets just a little tiring seeing Canada pounding her 'oh so righteous' green chest in the Cdn press. You'll notice that others aren't. Canada is a now considered a laggard on Green Cred in the progressive world.

A little less talk, and more action is warranted. And for God's sake, put Justin to work on a farm digging in the dirt, and being what he claims to be in his preaching.

It's getting very tired, Justin.

 

[nfitz]

The time to stop building on flood plains was the year they were identified as flood plains.

Bingo.

And that was about 60 years ago in most of Southern Ontario. Hurricane Hazel was an eye-opener, and they simply couldn't be given permits to rebuild.

Living in Montreal, it was absurd seeing pictures of the same homes flooded every year ... sure, this year has been particularly bad ... but so many of the flooded homes simply shouldn't be there.

Lake Ontario has been above it's 100-year flood level twice now in 3 years. But not by much. You don't see any houses really flooded (though some on Toronto Island that don't have basements are getting close) - but the loss of parkland, etc., is a problem.

 

[doady]

The free market can figure out what's right and what's wrong on its own. No need for yet more government interference and red tape. That red tape is the reason why housing costs in the GTA are skycrocketing and Quebec and New Brunswick are still affordable. Luckily we now have Doug Ford as our premier, and he is already taking steps make it easy for developers to build here and soon housing will become affordable again.

 

[lenaitch]

And soon housing will be sitting on riverbanks, prime farm land and paved over parkland. To the development industry, the difference between right and wrong is defined solely by dollar signs. Any believe that only reason for the difference in housing costs between the GTA and New Brunswick is regulation lacks an understanding of bssic economic forces.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The free market can figure out what's right and what's wrong on its own. No need for yet more government interference and red tape.

The challenge is when the New Brunswick government offers buy-outs or financial compensation for flood damage. That's taxpayer money going to mitigating the obvious risk of flood plain housing.

 

[AlbertC]

Forum poll: Ontarians among Canadians most flood-worried

Their province facing record-high Great Lakes, and drained by rivers that have caused grief for many, Ontarians are among the Canadians most concerned about flooding, a new national survey suggests.

Southwestern Ontarians have endured two straight years of damaging spring floods, menacing homes from Brantford to Windsor and Chatham, triggering emergency declarations and disaster relief, all the while as the region’s Great Lakes shoreline is reshaped by high water that’s undermined roads, closed parks and threatened landmarks.

The Ottawa area and northern Ontario have also taken a pounding from recent floods.

Forum poll: Ontarians among Canadians most flood-worried

Their province facing record-high Great Lakes, and drained by rivers that have caused grief for many, Ontarians are among the Canadians most concerned about…

lfpress.com