Cobra
Senior Member
I have to agree that this would make more sense and a more truthful representation of reality
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Finch West Line 6 LRT
- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
Amare
Senior Member
Sorry, but there's absolutely no justification for this laughable excuse of slow institutionalized molasses garbage that's about to be implemented on Finch West (speaking solely on vehicle speed here) but the TTC. I suspect the recovery time will also be a laughable joke as well because of whatever idiotic reason as well.
If the TTC isnt interested in providing travel at speeds that are actually decent and competent, then outsource the operation to someone who will. This non-sense has gone on for far too long, and it's simply inexcusable to spend billions of dollars to not maximize this line's operation because the TTC is too scared to do it.
This doesn't excuse Toronto Transportation Services for their own idiocy, but enough is enough. It's time someone takes responsibility for this abject stupidity going on.
If the TTC isnt interested in providing travel at speeds that are actually decent and competent, then outsource the operation to someone who will. This non-sense has gone on for far too long, and it's simply inexcusable to spend billions of dollars to not maximize this line's operation because the TTC is too scared to do it.
This doesn't excuse Toronto Transportation Services for their own idiocy, but enough is enough. It's time someone takes responsibility for this abject stupidity going on.
hw621
Senior Member
He missed 535 Eglinton...
yurt2022
New Member
B-b-but LRT supposed to be better than bus and subway 
The only thing we can hope is Metrolinx holding the TTC accountable for these practices, kind of like how they did when they wanted to run minimum service on Line 5.
The only thing we can hope is Metrolinx holding the TTC accountable for these practices, kind of like how they did when they wanted to run minimum service on Line 5.
Cobra
Senior Member
For the life of me...why is the TTC afraid of speed???
stfeinberg
New Member
The one bright spot of Finch and Eglinton being built over Sheppard first is that it allows the citizenry to see for themselves why Sheppard needs to be done correctly.
T3G
Senior Member
It's not just a TTC thing, it's a North America thing. It's because we have a culture that a) prioritizes the illusion of safety above all else, and b) is so litigious that the only solution to anything is to restrict restrict restrict.
New York added a lot of timers on their subway in the 1990s that slowed trips down considerably, out of an abudance of caution after the Williamsburg Bridge accident.
MTA weighs ending intentional slowing of trains in effect since deadly 1995 crash
The MTA is studying a simple idea to reduce the plague of subway delays: Run the trains faster.
www.ny1.com
Metrolinx is also like this. The speed limit around Renforth station is 20 km/h, and they're so fanatical about it they demanded that the TTC ban all buses without geofencing abilities so that they could strictly follow that speed. And if anyone on here actually used the transitway, they'd know that the part of it that is owned by MiWay is no speed demon either, despite being entirely grade separated and exactly the sort of transit solution that the anti-LRT types love to hype up. And it's going to be real fun when the new MCIs for GO enter service, too, as Transport Canada rules since September 2020 prohibit standees on buses with seatbelts.
Anyone who is going after LRT as being the problem is barking up the wrong tree entirely. Look around you, the problem is the safety culture that we have created.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The speed limit on Finch West is 60km/h and the LRT has its own lane with low chance of encountering obstacles in the lane. I can understand that there are stops and opportunities to tune the lights, but why would a bus be able to do it faster safely when buses are along the curb where pedestrians can step out, in lanes where cars can cut in front, in traffic, and not getting any light prioritization? Hopefully this gets press.
hw621
Senior Member
More of a legal liability culture than a "safety" culture...It's not just a TTC thing, it's a North America thing. It's because we have a culture that a) prioritizes the illusion of safety above all else, and b) is so litigious that the only solution to anything is to restrict restrict restrict.
New York added a lot of timers on their subway in the 1990s that slowed trips down considerably, out of an abudance of caution after the Williamsburg Bridge accident.
MTA weighs ending intentional slowing of trains in effect since deadly 1995 crash
The MTA is studying a simple idea to reduce the plague of subway delays: Run the trains faster.
Metrolinx is also like this. The speed limit around Renforth station is 20 km/h, and they're so fanatical about it they demanded that the TTC ban all buses without geofencing abilities so that they could strictly follow that speed. And if anyone on here actually used the transitway, they'd know that the part of it that is owned by MiWay is no speed demon either, despite being entirely grade separated and exactly the sort of transit solution that the anti-LRT types love to hype up. And it's going to be real fun when the new MCIs for GO enter service, too, as Transport Canada rules since September 2020 prohibit standees on buses with seatbelts.
Anyone who is going after LRT as being the problem is barking up the wrong tree entirely. Look around you, the problem is the safety culture that we have created.
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nfitz
Superstar
It was long as well. If you look at the current list, the longest one on the entire system is only 200 metres. For the current southbound zone between Sheppard West to Wilson it's reduced from 46 km/hr to 20 km/hr; but it's only 186 metres long. And then the other one, from Yorkdale to Lawrence West, is only 183 metres long ... with the speed reduced from 48 km/hr to 45 km/hr.
I'm not sure why they even bother listing a 180-metre long speed restriction, that's imperceptible!
Other than the recently started restrictions around Union, TTC hopefully has finally dealt with this issue, finally. With the system size and age, there's always going to be minor stuff popping up here and there.
That's true, T3G, but somewhat misleading. If you look at the two Finch to Vaughan restrictions, one is 25 km/hr - reduced 2 km/hr from the usual 27 km/hr (on the Union to St. Andrew curve). And the other (near Davisville) is a 25-km/hr limit, down from 32 km/hr ... that is only 152 metres long! I'm doubt most would even notice either!
The previous issues Line 1 issues were indeed mountains. But we are into molehill territory now.
The opening day schedule is just a placeholder?
That seems like a recipe for a PR disaster of epic proportions.
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APTA-2048
Senior Member
I get that the idea is to get clicks, but I wish people would actually inform people of the reasons for why things are the way they are. It’s not just this issue, but you see it a lot with transit people on social media.
Like streetcars are a perfectly viable form of transportation in other cities, but people see Toronto’s problems and think they are to blame for congestion. Light rail is also a perfectly valid form of transportation, but again people see Toronto’s problems and think it could never work. People see the deteriorating subway infrastructure, and come to the conclusion that the TTC needs to receive even less money. Stuff like this. It’s annoying and is why my social media feeds are just pretty pictures of buses, buildings, and plants. I don’t have the following to influence people’s opinions. I just share my thoughts with friends and family. At least there’s no competition to “win” and argument.
I guess this turned into a little bit of a rant. Sorry.
Dan416
Senior Member
Let's see what the actual speed is first. I can't comprehend how an LRT in its own lane will be slower than a bus.
JasonParis
Moderator
I think Rodney—who genuinely does a lot of great work—is being tongue-in-cheek here, using the “536” joke to draw attention to the headway issues before Line 6 even opens. It’s really a push for a better Line 6, not a demand for an actual new route.
I’m still waiting to see whether Olivia announces something as part of her re-election bid, and/or if the new TTC CEO steps forward with a real plan to fix the streetcar network—which would almost certainly bring some much-needed benefits to the LRT lines as well.
I’m still waiting to see whether Olivia announces something as part of her re-election bid, and/or if the new TTC CEO steps forward with a real plan to fix the streetcar network—which would almost certainly bring some much-needed benefits to the LRT lines as well.
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ARG1
Senior Member
I think there's a difference between lines that have a ton of slowzones due to decades of decay and poor maintenance versus a BRAND NEW "Rapid" Transit Line.
What part of this video is meant to be impressive exactly? A tram that barely reaches 55km/h in a section of road with barely any intersections, and somewhat lengthy stop spacing? The section afterwards when it actually enters city streets it caps out at 45km/h and stays that way for the next couple of stops. 45km/h, ie the speed of a car driving through a residential neighbourhood. Like its faster than the streetcars we have here in Toronto, but its not exactly performance that would justify a "Line 6" branding even if it was in Toronto. Certainly not something that should be called "Rapid Transit".
TwoWheelPoli
Active Member
This is pretty sad about these findings about the LRT being slower than the buses they replace. Based on the map, I would suggest removing the Driftwood and Stevenson stops to speed up service given they are too close to adjacent stations. Even with the removals, the spacing for Albion to Mount Olive and Tobermory to Jane and Finch would still be on par with other station spacings.