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Finch West Line 6 LRT

Can we put this debate to rest now about who is to blame more for Line 6 being slow *spoiler alert* all parties involved suck:

"On one hand, the City and TTC claim that until handover of Line 6 by Metrolinx, they could not make changes to the signal programming. However, staff revealed that a move for slower operation dates back at least to 2024, possibly to 2020, and was approved by all parties. Moreover, the handover took place well before opening day, and issues with poor signal priority would have been obvious during the TTC’s acceptance trials."
https://stevemunro.ca/2025/12/19/toronto-council-debates-transit-priority/

"Although the TTC takes the blame for rotten operations, their shuttle buses keep service available to riders. The overwhelming cause of delay is with systems provided and maintained by Metrolinx’ P3 partner, Mosaic. It is extremely difficult to believe that these are new conditions that suddenly manifested when passengers actually rode the trains. Equipment reliability should have been proven in the acceptance process. As for switches failing to operate in cold weather, this is not exactly new technology for Toronto, and in any event Metrolinx claimed that the line had already been through cold weather testing before it opened."
https://stevemunro.ca/2025/12/14/6-finch-west-six-days-of-delays/
 
T-Bor said:
Presumably if we're looking 25 years out, the cars will need to be replaced. The TTC could always get Line 1-style cars instead of 2 or 3 cars stretched out, which would increase capacity. Plus running more trains. If we're talking about overcapacity in 30 years, STC will be largely built out as well, so there could be a more equal share going in each direction
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I remember hearing that the Line 5 tunnels are actually wider than those on the TYSSE so that could be possible down the line, although it would require raising the platforms or lowering the trackbed
 
Burnt creek said:
Why must there always be so many stops in everyone of these plans? Cant planners and councilors be more considerate of transit user and their time? From a commuters standpoint its turns this kind of service into something akin to a bus service. Its seems very reasonable to have no more than a total number of stops equal to or less than the total kilometres on a line. Space the stations or stops approximately one kilometer apart.

Love the eglinton crosstown, and how the plan eveolved from its original inception. But the fact that there is 25 stops for a 19 km line is the one thing that still bugs me.
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This (above) post of mine from from 2016 has aged very well because it turned out to be true 100%. Now that the Finch West "LRT" has opened and we are are hearing the stories of frustrated users and how joggers are outpacing the "LRT". What I find frustrating is hearing that signal prioritization is somehow the magic bullet to resolve this, sure it will solve the problem a little. The real problem is that there are way too many stops and too many stops makes its akin to a bus service and in reality this should not be called an LRT but rather a streetcar. How this was not obvious from the beginning is beyond me.
 
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Burnt creek said:
This (above) post of mine from from 2016 has aged very well because it turned to be true 100%. Now that the Finch West "LRT" has opened and we are are hearing the stories of frustrated users and how joggers are outpacing the "LRT". What I find frustrating is hearing that signal prioritization is somehow the magic bullet to resolve this, sure it will solve the problem a little. The real problem is that there are way too many stops and too many stops makes its akin to a bus service and in reality this should not be called an LRT but rather a streetcar. How this was not obvious from the beginning is beyond me.
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There is no reason why rail in a separate right of way should be slower than a bus in mixed traffic on the very same corridor. There are problems that need to be resolved above and beyond stop spacing. We also have to understand that the Finch West LRT is designed to be a local transit service. This is different from true rapid transit. We need to serve riders along the entire corridor so there needs to be a compromise between speed of service and stop spacing. That compromise has been made, so the focus now needs to be on other things that can speed up the trains. If we wanted to make this line super fast, it needed to be subway with the associated enormous cost differential. It is very disappointing that this line was opened to the public without better optimization. So many videos I have seen, show trains running at a snail's pace. Surely, that can be improved.
 
Burnt creek said:
Exactly, you are supposed to build transit to move people. But if its slow because it has too many stops thats means its not moving people effectively and efficiently. For strictly comparative purposes, at 20-23 kms per hour, thats about the speed that decent marathoners run or good joggers/ runner who do 10km runs attain. Thats too slow for moving people via any kind of form transit or transportation.

Development is determined and occurs where there is an expectation of increased property values. In the absence of that, there is no development. Developers are business people. As such, they can and will only respond to market demand.

Its the proponents on these projects that are saying that its will increase property values, not me.
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I don't mean too blow my horn too much but here is another post of mine (from that same discussion in 2016) whereby I alluded to fact that with this kind of station spacing (i.e.: 18 stops for 10 Kms) , a jogger or a marathoner will/would match this pace. But i was a bit wrong here, It turns out that a jogger could EXCEED THIS PACE. Ten years from now we may look at this line as bigger boondoggle than the eglinton crosstown. That's because the Crosstown (the west part of line at least) has stations that are well spaced and hence will at least add some value because commuting times will be better. I would rather spend X times 10 and get something rather than spend X amount and get nothing or perhaps even an inferior service.
 
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lrt's friend said:
There is no reason why rail in a separate right of way should be slower than a bus in mixed traffic on the very same corridor. There are problems that need to be resolved above and beyond stop spacing. We also have to understand that the Finch West LRT is designed to be a local transit service. This is different from true rapid transit. We need to serve riders along the entire corridor so there needs to be a compromise between speed of service and stop spacing. That compromise has been made, so the focus now needs to be on other things that can speed up the trains. If we wanted to make this line super fast, it needed to be subway with the associated enormous cost differential. It is very disappointing that this line was opened to the public without better optimization. So many videos I have seen, show trains running at a snail's pace. Surely, that can be improved.
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Then why is it called an LRT? this is another thing i found frustrating. That line is a streetcar service plain and simple. That's what it looked like 10 yrs ago and that what it is now. Look at other projects out there such as the Hazel McCallion line in Mississauga or the Ottawa projects or Montreal? Are they putting this many stops? they are not. the Hazel McCallion line is 19 stops for 18 kms. that's what you need, about one stop per Km approx . I dont see anywhere outside of Toronto this BS of torturing user with a gazillions stops on LRT or RT routes.
 
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Burnt creek said:
Then why is it called an LRT? this is another thing i found frustrating. That line is a streetcar service plain and simple. That's what it looked like 10 yrs ago and that what it is now. Look at other projects out there such as the Hazel McCallion line in Mississauga or the Ottawa projects or Montreal? Are they putting this many stops? they are not. the Hazel McCallion line is 19 stops for 18 kms. that's what you need, about one stop per Km approx . I dont see anywhere outside of Toronto this BS of torturing user with a gazillions stops on LRT or RT routes.
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What is happening in Ottawa and Montreal is completely different. Those are designed to be rapid transit, not local transit. They are totally segregated rights of way. What is happening on Finch is more a streetcar, but LRT does not necessarily mean 'rapid'. Nevertheless, I am sure the line can be optimized. It seems to be a matter of political will. The exact same model of train is used in Ottawa, and there has been an enormous amount of complaints about speed and reliability there. Station wait times have been a big complaint. Is that a problem on Finch as well?
 
Burnt creek said:
Then why is it called an LRT? this is another thing i found frustrating. That line is a streetcar service plain and simple. That's what it looked like 10 yrs ago and that what it is now. Look at other projects out there such as the Hazel McCallion line in Mississauga or the Ottawa projects or Montreal?
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The Ottawa and Montreal projects are grade-separated subway-like projects. Heck, the Montreal project is mostly a converted commuter rail line. Would you compare the planed GO-ALRT to a line like Finch?

I'm not sure why you need so many consecutive posts to say the same thing.

Burnt creek said:
But i was a bit wrong here, It turns out that a jogger could EXCEED THIS PACE.
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The jogger only did 46-minutes. We've seen reports of LRV runs that were faster than that - even without signal priority being enabled. I very much doubt this will sustainable in the long-term.
 
Westey said:
Rob Ford wanted a subway. So did Georgio Mammoliti. They realized the due to the way Toronto is - there would be no way that the LRT would actually be Rapid. Unfortunately, they were not smart enough to propose something else.
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I'd like to set the record straight on this.

The intention was to pillage the Finch West LRT funds for his Sheppard Subway extension. In no way was a future Finch West subway going to happen even if they got the votes. In fact Rob Ford only added the BRT-Lite proposal (that came before the Finch vote) because of the high ridership numbers on Finch. His original draft/plan was going to neglect Finch outright. Changing to BRT-Lite still freed up some money to throw in his Sheppard plan while retaining his anti-surface rail policy. And his anti-surface rail policy came from his belief that LRT vehciles were going to be interfering with traffic on Finch just like on Queen - it had nothing to do about transit speed or operations.
 
ShonTron said:
I went out earlier this week to ride the LRT again. Though the eastbound trip took 49 minutes, the westbound trip took 15 minutes linger than that - 1 hour, 4 minutes.

It isn't just the slow speeds, it's the inconsistency that's awful.

seanmarshall.ca

Still waiting for the Finch West LRT

There’s not one easy fix for the Finch West LRT. Not only does it need transit signal priority, but it needs tighter schedules and better operations to live up to early promises.
seanmarshall.ca seanmarshall.ca
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Sounds like things will be inconsistent for quite a while given my ride from Keele to Humber College took 41 minutes. Hope full TSP gets activated sooner rather than later.
 
nfitz said:
The jogger only did 46-minutes. We've seen reports of LRV runs that were faster than that - even without signal priority being enabled. I very much doubt this will sustainable in the long-term.
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Phew. Thanks for setting the record straight. The commuters who have to use that line from Humber college can now be re-assured that jogger might not be able to outpace the Finch West LRT afterall.
 
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