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Finch West Line 6 LRT

urbanclient said:
Did you see the amount of TTC old heads in high-vis with beer bellies and grey/white hair around Finch West on Sunday? They were all over Line 6, at the terminus stations, and occasionally on the trains. The TTC is a seniority based organization, it is not a particularly meritocratic organization.

Here is relevant video and corresponding article:
toronto.citynews.ca

Calls grow from TTC riders to improve Line 6 Finch West LRT trip times

CityNews Toronto went out across Line 6 Finch West to test trip times for light rail vehicles, shuttle buses and driving to compare each mode.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

Quick segue:
Lots of hot air from people and bots on reddit, youtube, and even this forum for a looong time now about streetcars and TSP: "they have transit priority equipment built, the City/TTC just doesn't turn them on".
At least 300 intersections had "unconditional" signal priority 'on' for streetcars and buses as of April 2025: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-254795.pdf

So it's less that they're not "on", and more that they suck a** so bad that they might as well be "off".

Even CityNews is saying dumb stuff now about Line 6, thinking the line was built without TSP at all.
CityNews: "We asked Metrolinx why the line was built without transit priority signals."

EDIT: *I would hope Black & McDonald completed their signal work on time for the opening? Anyone wanna chime in on this? The whole aura around transit in Toronto is so incompetent at all levels I'm not even sure if the CityNews journalist misspoke, or that the line actually was built without TSP.*
Click to expand...

Steve X said:
They aren't even embarrassed. They went straight to the blame game and called out the control system limiting their speed.

Rail lines was setup to fail if the modern TTC operates them. We can see from historical videos that TTC operated a much faster streetcar and subway system than the crap they do today. There is no hope they will even get this down to 40 minutes with the behaviours and attitude towards rail operation. It seems like they can still operate a bus for now. Maybe in 10 years they will buy buses that slowly closes all the doors to make transit worse. I mean the rear doors on the current buses already close slower than high floor buses in the 80s with a much lower capacity.

The number of reduced speed zones on the subway system is pathetic. Even without those RSZ, the TRs already operate slower than the T1s and H5s. Look what they do on Allen. Trains barely get to 60 km/h and that is complete grade separation. And we are telling them to do that on Finch, there is no hope.

Also a part of all this slowness nonsense is scheduling. They can't just speed pass every station and take a longer break at the end. Trains will all just get stuck in a backlog waiting to enter the terminal. So they want them all to go slow.
Click to expand...
Yup, with ATC on Line 1, trains are limited to a top speed of 75 KM/H now when they used to reach 80.
 
Found the Hong Kong transit equivalence of Line 6: Tram (aka Ding Ding) from Central Market to Taikoo Shing (approx 10k distance, 55 min ride).
Albeit with a route that is a lot more scenic and a ride that is much loved by the locals….and cheap! (HK$3.3 = CAD$0.60)
IMG_1832.png
 
thenorth said:
Honestly, I’m not upset about the Disaster on Finch West. The embarrassment will force the TTC to evaluate its operating procedures on Finch West, and apply the same lessons to the rest of the streetcar and surface network. I hope the Eglinton Line will be a disaster as well.

In the meanwhile, we must keep up the pressure on City Council!
Click to expand...
Just bear in mind that it's not the disaster per se, but the spotlight being on the disaster, that matters.
 
urbanclient said:
Did you see the amount of TTC old heads in high-vis with beer bellies and grey/white hair around Finch West on Sunday? They were all over Line 6, at the terminus stations, and occasionally on the trains. The TTC is a seniority based organization, it is not a particularly meritocratic organization.

Here is relevant video and corresponding article:
toronto.citynews.ca

Calls grow from TTC riders to improve Line 6 Finch West LRT trip times

CityNews Toronto went out across Line 6 Finch West to test trip times for light rail vehicles, shuttle buses and driving to compare each mode.
toronto.citynews.ca toronto.citynews.ca

Quick segue:
Lots of hot air from people and bots on reddit, youtube, and even this forum for a looong time now about streetcars and TSP: "they have transit priority equipment built, the City/TTC just doesn't turn them on".
At least 300 intersections had "unconditional" signal priority 'on' for streetcars and buses as of April 2025. **EDIT #2 for clarification: *"Currently, of the 420 existing TSP locations, approximately 100 are not currently operational because of construction impacts"*: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2025/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-254795.pdf

So it's less that they're not "on", and more that they suck a** so bad that they might as well be "off".

Even CityNews is saying dumb stuff now about Line 6, thinking the line was built without TSP at all.
CityNews: "We asked Metrolinx why the line was built without transit priority signals."

EDIT: *I would hope Black & McDonald completed their signal work on time for the opening? Anyone wanna chime in on this? The whole aura around transit in Toronto is so incompetent at all levels I'm not even sure if the CityNews journalist misspoke, or that the line actually was built without TSP.*
Click to expand...
This report is pretty devastating regarding the speed of the LRT


Car: 23 Min (Keele to Humber)
Car: 29 Min (Humber to keele)
Bus: 31 min (includes more stops than the LRT, Humber to keele)
LRT: 47min (Keele to Humber)

The Bus is 16 min faster even though it had more stops to make and the same lack of signal priority.

I thought this was interesting from the youtube comment:

"I was driving during rush hour and all the shuttle buses were packed while the trams were hardly full. By evening it looked like a majority of commuters intentionally chose the jam packed shuttle buses because it was much faster"
 
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drum118 said:
Talking to a few transit personnel in the US who have run systems, they expect improvement over the next 6 months or less, but with no transit priority not going to improve that much.
Click to expand...

The shuttle bus which has more stops than the LRT is 16 minute faster while also having no signal priority.
Seems like there is alot to be gained from operational changes to me.
 
drum118 said:
It has been said that this is day one of real service, and TTC doesn't want Ottawa issues on this line to the point it may take 6 months to see a decrease in runtime to a point. Until there is a real transit priority signal system in play. Let's see what April will bring for service quality
Click to expand...
The public outcry might be larger than Ottawa when Eglinton opens with these slow speeds as well.
 
These left-hand turns wouldn't be a problem if they implemented what I recommended ages ago. That is to follow what many other street running LRTs do............they get rid of ALL the left-hand turns at intersections by designing the system to not need them. They do this by having U-turn lanes each-way mid-block controlled by lights. Some places actually have it for not only the transit running street but also all the cross streets. They found that not only does it make the trains much faster and reliable but also actually improves traffic flow on both roads and is safer for both pedestrians and cyclists. Basically the intersection become nothing more than a big "+" with just right hand turns allowed. LA has done this in sections of it's LRT street running lines and it made both the drivers and transit riders happier. People making left-hand turns were actually able to do it faster during rush-hours.

Of course this would have required planning and someone spending 10 minutes online out of 6 years to see how other cities solve the left-hand turn problem, but we all know that's FAR to much to ask from Metrolinx, a shockingly incompetent and corrupt body if ever there was one.

There is NO way this line should take more than 30 minutes end to end and they should aim for 20 minutes like Edmonton's similar Valley Line. That means no stopping at ANY light for ANY reason {except emergency vehicles} and getting rid of some of these superfluous stops, at least 5 of them. A supposed rapid transit line in the burbs should really only average about one station/stop per km and the fewer the stations, the easier it is to synchronize the lights and maintain schedules.
 
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Northern Light said:
I have it on good authority, neither the Mayor's Office, nor the Premier's are pleased by the reception here and negative media coverage. How they will respond, remains to be seen.

Collectively, we need to keep the pressure on everyone here, from the TTC to Mx, from the Mayor to the Minister to make clear this performance is not acceptable and must not be allowed to continue.
Click to expand...

Good, but then again, what did they expect? People under their watch was either asleep or couldn't be bothered to heed the warnings.

christiesplits said:

Finch West LRT to be 10 minutes faster by spring, TTC says​

Click to expand...

And why would *anyone* in these organizations believe that this "expected pace" is acceptable, to such an extent that they signed off on it before opening? It makes me question their suitability for continued involvement in transit planning - because it is very clear that user benefit isn't their clear priority.

AoD
 
Northern Light said:
Collectively, we need to keep the pressure on everyone here, from the TTC to Mx, from the Mayor to the Minister to make clear this performance is not acceptable and must not be allowed to continue.
Click to expand...
Absolutely!

I have been very encouraged by both the public and media coverage of this issue. For ones it's not ppl complaining about 10 different things with 10 possible solutions but rather everyone is in agreement here.

Going into an election year I suspect the mayor will want to address this. ESPECIALLY if eglinton lrt will have the same issue.

I think significantly improving speeds is a totally easy political win!
 
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