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Finch West Line 6 LRT

sixrings said:
I will say one other benefit is on street boarding. I recently used the Ottawa lrt from Rideau centre. The station is ridiculously deep as if the constructors were half trying to see if they could make it to Hell. The two or was it three flights of escalators took a solid five minutes to even get onto the platform. You add that to your travel time both ways and you add 10 minutes to your trip. Made me have some fear about the depths of eglinton and or the Ontario line.
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True, although we are not seriously debating a subway or any kind of underground line on Finch.

I guess, Eglinton (Keele to Bayview) and Ontario Line (in downtown) have no choice, because of the numerous underground utility lines in those old parts of the city.
 
T3G said:
You know what buses are good? VIVA's Van Hools. They ride better than any North American bus, and they have a GIANT space across the rear doors that can fit a wheelchair/stroller and quite a few standees.
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York Region succeeded in boosting their ridership along Yonge and in Markham big time, by marketing VIVA as something much more classy than an ordinary bus.
 
Parkdalian said:
Please re-read my post. All of the downtown snobbery you read in it is in your head, not mine! I said, "As someone who has taken the Finch bus from Humber to Yonge, 36 minutes will be a dream in comparison to what it is now." I speak as someone who uses Rexdale transit regularly and has done so for the last fifteen years.

As Ward8 noted, the Finch bus currently takes an hour to go to the subway. Same with the 996/96 to Wilson (Express means nothing in Rexdale!). Half an hour to get to the Yonge subway from Humber College? It is a magical dream!
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The comments I read "People will rise up! Rexdale will burn! The streets will run red with blood because the average speed of the LRT is x kph instead of y kph!" felt to me like a tongue-in-cheek mocking of someone who is advocating that Rexdale deserves faster transit that is on par with the rest of the city. It's almost like you were saying somehow this is an absurd thing to think - we should when spending this kind of money (thankfully!!) on what was supposed to be a rapid transit line. And this is a forum, after all, to discuss this transit line? If you don't want to hear people give their opinion on the speeds (and other things) related to the line, why read the thread? That's what is' here for?
 
T3G said:
I don't avoid buses, per se, but I can't say I'm a fan, and if there's a rail option, I would always opt for that one.

Buses can be good.

Just not TTC ones.

The Orions are pretty adequate in terms of ride quality, while the Novas are a spine shattering abomination, but both suffer from having an AWFUL interior layout. No standee spaces, meaning that as soon as the bus fills up (which doesn't take much), there is pretty much no place for you to stand where you're not in someone's way. Can't stand by the wheel wells, because people are getting on... can't stand by the rear doors, because people are getting off... can't stand in the wheelchair spot, because if there is no wheelchair or stroller, people are sitting there, and if there is, then they are taking up that space... can't stand in the high floor section, cause people are getting off and it's super crammed... I honestly don't know what is wrong with the TTC that they keep ordering their buses like this. The last bus with a good interior floor plan was the 1996 Orion V.

You know what buses are good? VIVA's Van Hools. They ride better than any North American bus, and they have a GIANT space across the rear doors that can fit a wheelchair/stroller and quite a few standees.
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To be fair to the TTC, it's pretty slim pickings on who to order buses from.

The only 2 North American players are New Flyer and Nova Bus. Unfortunately Daimler screwed up Orion and they went under, while New Flyer acquired some competitors over the years. Van Hools are seen as a premium product.

I'll certainly agree with you that the Orion's have a pretty damn good ride quality from a passengers perspective. Nova Bus is just a mess with their design: cramped rear, heat doesn't dissipate from the extreme rear row of seats leading customers feeling like their sitting in a sauna during the summer months, awkward front design leading to odd seating, from an emergency perspective no rear window emergency exits asides from the roof hatch, etc. The list goes on with them. Personally i've been counting the days until they get out of business altogether (they've withdrawn from the U.S recently and are rumored to be withdrawing from the diesel market industry), or (wishful thinking) Volvo adapted one of their European models for North America but that's unlikely since they're only focusing on chassis building now for the large part.

In my opinion, New Flyer is the better builder between the two but the problem is, if Nova goes under than you're pretty much stuck sole-sourcing orders and that's another issue altogether.

But anywhom, the Finch West LRT wont have any of these issues. The issue it will have is with Toronto Transportation Services being idiotic in not activating Transit Signal Priority because they're dinosaurs who dont have an understanding of anything asides from cars. Another potential issue is with the TTC's idiotic SOPs but we'll have to see how they operate the line within the first week or two to come to a conclusion there.
 
Amare said:
To be fair to the TTC, it's pretty slim pickings on who to order buses from.

The only 2 North American players are New Flyer and Nova Bus. Unfortunately Daimler screwed up Orion and they went under, while New Flyer acquired some competitors over the years. Van Hools are seen as a premium product.

I'll certainly agree with you that the Orion's have a pretty damn good ride quality from a passengers perspective. Nova Bus is just a mess with their design: cramped rear, heat doesn't dissipate from the extreme rear row of seats leading customers feeling like their sitting in a sauna during the summer months, awkward front design leading to odd seating, from an emergency perspective no rear window emergency exits asides from the roof hatch, etc. The list goes on with them. Personally i've been counting the days until they get out of business altogether (they've withdrawn from the U.S recently and are rumored to be withdrawing from the diesel market industry), or (wishful thinking) Volvo adapted one of their European models for North America but that's unlikely since they're only focusing on chassis building now for the large part.

In my opinion, New Flyer is the better builder between the two but the problem is, if Nova goes under than you're pretty much stuck sole-sourcing orders and that's another issue altogether.

But anywhom, the Finch West LRT wont have any of these issues. The issue it will have is with Toronto Transportation Services being idiotic in not activating Transit Signal Priority because they're dinosaurs who dont have an understanding of anything asides from cars. Another potential issue is with the TTC's idiotic SOPs but we'll have to see how they operate the line within the first week or two to come to a conclusion there.
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For me the bus seems to be significantly less clean than the other transit choices. The vomit comet is the best example of this. My second hate is being stuck in traffic in a bus. Thirdly, and this maybe the worst, I can’t stand bus drivers. They weave in and out of traffic. They come to sudden stops. They like to take off as if it’s their Ferrari. It’s extremely erratic. You have to hang on for dear life. I’m not a fan.
 
sixrings said:
For me the bus seems to be significantly less clean than the other transit choices. The vomit comet is the best example of this.
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Take the 501 Queen or 510 Spadina past 11pm and i'm sure your opinion will change.

sixrings said:
My second hate is being stuck in traffic in a bus.
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Buses have a better ability to maneuver through traffic compared to streetcars in mixed-used situations. The Finch West LRT wont have this issue.

sixrings said:
Thirdly, and this maybe the worst, I can’t stand bus drivers. They weave in and out of traffic. They come to sudden stops. They like to take off as if it’s their Ferrari. It’s extremely erratic. You have to hang on for dear life. I’m not a fan.
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Maybe you've had drivers who have a lot of road rage. It's not a common experience really. Also you would be surprised by the amount of streetcar drivers who drive erratically/slow crawl through an entire route.

T3G said:
True, but there is nothing stopping them from nixing the seats across from the rear door and turning that into a standee area, as of old.
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Over the years the amount of seats on TTC buses has actually gone down; part of it is the switch from high floor buses to low floor buses, part of it is due to bus model changes. Theoretically they could do that, but it would have any significant material affect.
 
Parkdalian said:
Please re-read my post. All of the downtown snobbery you read in it is in your head, not mine! I said, "As someone who has taken the Finch bus from Humber to Yonge, 36 minutes will be a dream in comparison to what it is now." I speak as someone who uses Rexdale transit regularly and has done so for the last fifteen years.

As Ward8 noted, the Finch bus currently takes an hour to go to the subway. Same with the 996/96 to Wilson (Express means nothing in Rexdale!). Half an hour to get to the Yonge subway from Humber College? It is a magical dream!
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It will be 36 mins to get to Finch West from Humber College. This won’t get you to Yonge or anywhere close. It’s probably another 20-30mins to get to Yonge from Finch West.
 
Rainforest said:
York Region succeeded in boosting their ridership along Yonge and in Markham big time, by marketing VIVA as something much more classy than an ordinary bus.
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I doubt Markham ridership went up much on Viva Purple: the highway 7 viva BRTs are not well used primarily because the service is crap. Yonge St investment made sense but for Highway 7 the road and the surrounding corridor is not condusive to much transit ridership. Outside the few captive riders, most Markham citizens drive because it’s much much faster.
 
lead82 said:
I doubt Markham ridership went up much on Viva Purple: the highway 7 viva BRTs are not well used primarily because the service is crap. Yonge St investment made sense but for Highway 7 the road and the surrounding corridor is not condusive to much transit ridership. Outside the few captive riders, most Markham citizens drive because it’s much much faster.
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I don't have the stats, thus I could be wrong.

I've been on VIVA Hwy 7 buses several times, and have seen a suprisingly large number of riders, with all seats taken and a few people standing. That happened pre-Covid and before the route restructuring, so perhaps the situation got worse by now.
 
A lot of it is regional - folks avoiding the 407 to go far. It doesn’t translate to YRT ridership as most folks who live there have access to a car and many destinations are not right off 7 so transit with the poor service that’s there is not even considered. Also parking is free and ample along the corridor so it makes it easier to hop in a car and drive.
 
Rainforest said:
I don't have the stats, thus I could be wrong.

I've been on VIVA Hwy 7 buses several times, and have seen a suprisingly large number of riders, with all seats taken and a few people standing. That happened pre-Covid and before the route restructuring, so perhaps the situation got worse by now.
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I work in the Downtown Markham area and when I drive on highway 7, the few viva buses I do see are almost always empty. This is on weekday rush hours. I suspect it’s a Covid effect of many office and IT workers in the area working remotely.
 
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