Finch West Line 6 LRT

[TheTigerMaster]

Next stop: 1911 Finch Ave. West
1. Simple - street address, simple enough
2. Logical - this is a bit subjective
3. Durable - unless they change the street's name
4. Self-locating - also subjective, adding a cross-street descriptor might help
5. Unique - how many "1911 Finch Ave. West" are there in the city?

I think some TTC bus stops are already named this way.

TTC only uses street numbers for mid-block stops.

Anyways I don't get why they can't just name the stations after cross streets. Nobody has any problems with the instruction "take the Finch bus and get off at Islington". Now heads are going to explode if people are told to "take the Finch LRT to Islington"?

 

[BurlOak]

TTC only uses street numbers for mid-block stops.

Anyways I don't get why they can't just name the stations after cross streets. Nobody has any problems with the instruction "take the Finch bus and get off at Islington". Now heads are going to explode if people are told to "take the Finch LRT to Islington"?

that's too confusing to me.

It makes more sense to say; "go to 2650 Finch West.

Would anyone know the street number for any of the cross streets to +/- 1000.

 

[BurlOak]

In Tokyo all Lines are given a letter and numbers for each station. In Toronto and equivalent system might have Line One be Y for Yellow and then finch for example would be Y-1 Finch and Sheppard would be Y-3 Sheppard.

I used Tokyo as the example previously. The lines had a letter and also a colour. The stations had a name and a "letter and number" pair. The letter came from the actual name of the line - usually the first letter, but a second syllable if the first was taken. Easy for a visitor to navigate since when you get on at a station, you know if you want to go in the ascending or descending number direction. The equivalent for Toronto would be - lets assume all LRT's are either going to be built as subways (still not too lake to elevate ECLRT) or get similar designation to subways (each would also have its own colour - multiple ways of differentiating the lines):

Yonge-University-Spadina Line = Y (yellow)
Bloor-Danforth = B (green)
Sheppard = S (purple)
DRL (Don Mills Line if they build the long) = D

Eglinton = E
Scarborough Malvern = M
Finch = F
Jane = J
Waterfront West = W
Harbour Front = H
St. Clair = C
Spadina = P (yah, that one didn't work that well)

Stations still have names, but also numbers. Current interchanges would be at Y15-B15: Y16-B16: Y28-B18: Y36-S1:

I decided to number from West to East (I may have counted wrong), and I assume things get re-numbered if a new station is added to a line.

 

[BurlOak]

The question to ask is - will a transit line have more than 26 stations. If yes, then stations get numbered and transit lines lettered. Since 2 lines already have more than 26 stations, it was a terrible idea to number our lines. Add to that the fact the everyone already knew the 2 main lines as B-D and YUS, so the leap to B and Y is not that great.
I would guess most people could not tell you which is line 1, 2, 3 and 4, and even fewer will be able to in a few years when line 5 and 6 come on board. More people likely know the colour, and the former name than the current number.

 

[Kyle Campbell]

I think the numbers would mean nothing to a local, but are useful to tourists. They won't remember names easily (we're going to s something-er-other... Shubbard, sheppley, something like that), but can easily remember a number. Vice versa a local would never bother knowing y31 for Sheppard-Yonge

 

[BurlOak]

I think the numbers would mean nothing to a local, but are useful to tourists. They won't remember names easily (we're going to s something-er-other... Shubbard, sheppley, something like that), but can easily remember a number. Vice versa a local would never bother knowing y31 for Sheppard-Yonge

Agree - but are you saying there's something wrong with this?
Multiple naming seems the best. The Transit Line - name, letter, colour.
Stations - name and number.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Internally, to MTO for accounting purposes, the Queen Elizabeth Way is listed as either Highway 1 or Highway 451. See link.

 

[BurlOak]

Internally, to MTO for accounting purposes, the Queen Elizabeth Way is listed as either Highway 1 or Highway 451. See link.

I don't think I've ever heard of 451 actually used. In terms of highway priority (in case of interchange), the order is:

• Highway 1
• Hwy 400's
• Hwy 2 to 199
• Hwy 500 and up.

So whenever two highways intersect, the major highway is the one based on the above.

 

[JSF-1]

In Tokyo all Lines are given a letter and numbers for each station. In Toronto and equivalent system might have Line One be Y for Yellow and then finch for example would be Y-1 Finch and Sheppard would be Y-3 Sheppard.

Something like this.

 

[gweed123]

View attachment 135719
Something like this.

What happens when you extend a line or add a new station (ex: North York Centre was added after the line opened). If the Yonge line was ever extended north of Finch, they'd need to renumber the entire line.

And the issue with duplicate names isn't for people, it's for technology. People will type in "Islington" and have the app route them there. Is that Islington on the Bloor Line, Islington on the Eglinton Line, or Islington on the Finch Line? The potential for confusion is definitely there.

The hierarchy for naming should be Cross Street (if not already taken) > Neighbourhood > Local Landmark > "& Street" suffix (as those tend to get quite long). The big thing though is we shouldn't be shy about renaming existing stations if they're in a very identifiable neighbourhood and that Cross Street name can be better used elsewhere where there isn't a well identified neighbourhood.

 

[JSF-1]

What happens when you extend a line or add a new station (ex: North York Centre was added after the line opened). If the Yonge line was ever extended north of Finch, they'd need to renumber the entire line.

And the issue with duplicate names isn't for people, it's for technology. People will type in "Islington" and have the app route them there. Is that Islington on the Bloor Line, Islington on the Eglinton Line, or Islington on the Finch Line? The potential for confusion is definitely there.

The hierarchy for naming should be Cross Street (if not already taken) > Neighbourhood > Local Landmark > "& Street" suffix (as those tend to get quite long). The big thing though is we shouldn't be shy about renaming existing stations if they're in a very identifiable neighbourhood and that Cross Street name can be better used elsewhere where there isn't a well identified neighbourhood.

In the event the line changes in some way, the stations on the line are re-numbered accordingly. Obviously since our system is still growing this can be a hassle, compared to say the Tokyo Metro which is no longer growing (the Tokyo Metro Company has stated they will not build or operate anymore Subways in the city, leaving the onus of future service and expansions on the Municipally owned Toei Subway). However since expansions in Toronto are such a rare occurrence the Japan style map system could last decades before needing to be updated. Not saying we should make the change, I'm just visualizing what Reecemartin was saying. I do agree with the naming though, I much prefer using street names, but if not possible move to alternatives.

Personally I feel people in Toronto seem to identify more with what street they live on (or the closest major street) than the neighborhood they live in. I know its anecdotal but personally I didn't even know the area I live in was called "Woburn" until a couple of years ago. I personally always identified with Lawrence Ave.

 

[gweed123]

In the event the line changes in some way, the stations on the line are re-numbered accordingly. Obviously since our system is still growing this can be a hassle, compared to say the Tokyo Metro which is no longer growing (the Tokyo Metro Company has stated they will not build or operate anymore Subways in the city, leaving the onus of future service and expansions on the Municipally owned Toei Subway). However since expansions in Toronto are such a rare occurrence the Japan style map system could last decades before needing to be updated. Not saying we should make the change, I'm just visualizing what Reecemartin was saying. I do agree with the naming though, I much prefer using street names, but if not possible move to alternatives.

Yes, it could be a pain I suppose. Another alternative would be, if you know an extension is on the horizon (ex: the Spadina extension was under construction for years before it was opened), then you can number accordingly. If it's an extension onto the end of the line it isn't an issue, but if it's at the beginning it is.

Personally I feel people in Toronto seem to identify more with what street they live on (or the closest major street) than the neighborhood they live in. I know its anecdotal but personally I didn't even know the area I live in was called "Woburn" until a couple of years ago. I personally always identified with Lawrence Ave.

Some neighbourhoods have stronger identities than others. For example, if Bathurst Station was renamed Annex Station, I don't think there would be that much confusion around it. Or if for whatever reason there was a new Bay Station required, renaming the existing one Yorkville Station wouldn't be a big issue (though it may cause some confusion with Yorkdale, but that's another issue).

On Finch West, it's mainly Kipling and Islington that are problematic, name-wise. There isn't a strongly identifiable neighbourhood name for either, and even the park at Islington & Finch is named "Finch-Islington Park".

 

[JSF-1]

Yes, it could be a pain I suppose. Another alternative would be, if you know an extension is on the horizon (ex: the Spadina extension was under construction for years before it was opened), then you can number accordingly. If it's an extension onto the end of the line it isn't an issue, but if it's at the beginning it is.



Some neighbourhoods have stronger identities than others. For example, if Bathurst Station was renamed Annex Station, I don't think there would be that much confusion around it. Or if for whatever reason there was a new Bay Station required, renaming the existing one Yorkville Station wouldn't be a big issue (though it may cause some confusion with Yorkdale, but that's another issue).

On Finch West, it's mainly Kipling and Islington that are problematic, name-wise. There isn't a strongly identifiable neighborhood name for either, and even the park at Islington & Finch is named "Finch-Islington Park".

Yes some neighborhoods do have recognition within and outside of them (others include places like Liberty Village, Forest Hill, Leaside, etc.) and in those cases the neighbourhood name is great. As we've both touched on however there are some which don't. For instance how many people at say Dufferin and Eglinton have heard the term Fairbank, or let alone know they live there.

 

[JSF-1]

You also have times where one area may have multiple stations; the Jane & Finch area is a great example of this. In my opinion I think "Driftwood" would be a great name for it, problem is, there is already a Driftwood station on that line, and Yorkgate (another good name) is reserved for the Jane Line should it be built.

 

[BurlOak]

View attachment 135719
Something like this.

Beautiful.