Families in Toronto

[Palma]

The problem is that Toronto is already way too expensive. You want density, great, but explain how people are going to afford to pay their mortgage and send their kids to a great school and feel that their children are safe?

Not to mention that Toronto does not even have the infrastructure as it is for the amount of density that is being built.

Toronto expensive? Not when compared to Manhattan. That small island has 1.5/1.8 million people and a lot more expensive than Toronto especoaly in terms of what condos go for. Plus how many houses exist in Manhattan? Are they not all apartments/cpndos?

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

Toronto expensive? Not when compared to Manhattan. That small island has 1.5/1.8 million people and a lot more expensive than Toronto especoaly in terms of what condos go for. Plus how many houses exist in Manhattan? Are they not all apartments/cpndos?

This must-have-a-house-and-backyard-and-two-car-driveway mentality is very much a creation of the car culture, especially in North America, especially post-war. Before the war, I am willing to bet that most people either lived and worked in small towns built around farming or local industries or lived in apartments in the city. In Europe, that was most definitely the case. Even in Montreal and, as Palma points out, Manhattan. Both built up, possibly because they are built on islands and that limited sprawl.

In Montreal, you have a lot of duplexes and triplexes, the sort you see in the Beaches in Toronto. Big two and three bedroom flats that can easily accommodate a family. And, back in the day, when families were larger, nobody thought twice about having to share a room with a sibling or two.

When I moved here, I was shocked by how much more expensive it was to live here than in Montreal. (The differential is not as large now.) But, rather than change our style of living in a walkable neighbourhood, we bought a narrow semi in Riverdale and adjusted.

I bet that, if more family sized condos were built in walkable neighbourhoods, or closer to the core, lower income families would move in -- assuming they can ditch that MUST OWN PIECE OF LAND mindset.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I bet that, if more family sized condos were built in walkable neighbourhoods, or closer to the core, lower income families would move .

Why do we want more lower income families in the core? Where I live we're surrounded by lower income families. Instead, let's encourage middle and hig income families to live in the core. This is what your example of Manhattan does, where you have thousands of high and middle income families living in the towers of Manhattan. Yes, there are poorer areas on Manhattan, but they're considered outside of the core.

 

[RC8]

While there's many advantages of having middle and high income families living in the core, low-income families shouldn't be neglected. Living in a family making minimum wage (or close) in the suburbs is brutal.

There's space to accommodate a lot more people of all incomes and ages in the Old City.

 

[nrb]

Why do we want more lower income families in the core? Where I live we're surrounded by lower income families. Instead, let's encourage middle and hig income families to live in the core. This is what your example of Manhattan does, where you have thousands of high and middle income families living in the towers of Manhattan. Yes, there are poorer areas on Manhattan, but they're considered outside of the core.

Are you prejudiced against low income families? Do you think only someone making x amount of money deserves to live in the city?

 

[Admiral Beez]

While there's many advantages of having middle and high income families living in the core, low-income families shouldn't be neglected.

Agreed, we need a place for everyone, but low income families are not neglected or under represented in the core. If it's a rental tower (as opposed to condos) in the core, you're pretty much guaranteed it's low income.

 

[RC8]

I think all families are neglected and under represented in the core and its surroundings. There's very few families moving into the city compared to the number of families moving out of it. Some people think this is a good thing, whereas I personally think it's terrible.

Measures to bring families back into the core should offer incentives to all social classes.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Is Cabbagetown considered to be within the core? If so, there are tons of families moving into my neighbourhood.

 

[Johnny Au]

Gentrification is occurring in Cabbagetown (which can be seen by the installation of EIFS over brick), driving many poorer families out of the area.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

I think all families are neglected and under represented in the core and its surroundings. There's very few families moving into the city compared to the number of families moving out of it. Some people think this is a good thing, whereas I personally think it's terrible.

Measures to bring families back into the core should offer incentives to all social classes.

Agreed!

There's nothing wrong with diversity. Also, what about young people who are currently forced into service jobs in the core because they graduate but can find nothing in their chosen fields? Where are they to live? In their bedrooms back in Pickering or Burlington? At least with 2-3 bedroom rentals, they can share, like I did when I was a student.

The only problem with most rental towers in Toronto is that they were built back in a time where the mentality was to cluster them together in a "park-like setting" with little or no walkability, terrible transit and all the makings for high crime at night.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Gentrification is occurring in Cabbagetown (which can be seen by the installation of EIFS over brick), driving many poorer families out of the area.

I haven't noticed that, and I'm in the construction biz, including EIFS installation products.

You'll need to get past these folks beforehand http://www.cabbagetownpa.ca/

 

[nfitz]

This is what your example of Manhattan does, where you have thousands of high and middle income families living in the towers of Manhattan. Yes, there are poorer areas on Manhattan, but they're considered outside of the core.

How does this fit in with the requirement to have affordable housing in ... well judging by the signs one walks by ... in virtually every condo development in Manhattan?

 

[UserNameToronto]

While there's many advantages of having middle and high income families living in the core, low-income families shouldn't be neglected.

I've lived 4 years in a central neighbourhood in a major European city. There are loads of families living in this area because the social welfare system is quite generous, especially when it comes to housing benefits. As follows:

Social housing is even more dominant in Hoxton, accounting for around 64% of all housing tenure. House
prices in the ward are significantly higher than the borough average, especially for flats.

Source: http://www.invest-in-hackney.org/files/uploads/hoxton-ward-profile_1.pdf

The result? The public school system is unusable. Very few private homeowners send their children to these awful schools. Either you can afford private school, or you move out to the burbs. The result is loads of lower income kids living one existence (social housing, terrible schools) and higher class kids living a very different one (lovely housing, private schools). Nothing in between.

I wonder if the % mix of social housing in the area, perhaps a reduction from 64% to 10%, would lower competition for housing. This would lower prices and make room for a middle class element. If middle class parents sent their kids to public schools, perhaps they would improve as well.

The other byproduct is that there are a lot of disaffected youths in the area. They can be dangerous and muggings are not uncommon. Keep your eyes peeled at the 11 second mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXp6yOgX70Q

[video=youtube;dXp6yOgX70Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXp6yOgX70Q[/video]

126 iphone thefts were reported in just one neighbourhood (Islington) in just one month (Nov/11) involving just one method (by bike). http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/n...ncrease_dramatica lly_in_islington_1_1150439

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav

 

[diminutive]

I've lived 4 years in a central neighbourhood in a major European city. There are loads of families living in this area because the social welfare system is quite generous, especially when it comes to housing benefits.

I'm guessing you live in East London then? I used to live Bethnal Green.

The big issue here is that I'm not sure what people mean by "the core."

Relative to Union Station, Hackney would be somewhere out in the Beaches or Leslieville, areas which do have large family populations.

But no families are living in Central London barring the Emir of Kuwait or something...

 

[Admiral Beez]

How does this fit in with the requirement to have affordable housing in ... well judging by the signs one walks by ... in virtually every condo development in Manhattan.

Is that a question?