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Eglinton West LRT | Metrolinx

robmausser

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GTA became trash at building subways. So Vancouver can plan to complete the 6km Broadway subway in 5 years, why does it take 10 years here? ML and the Liberals set a bad example with the Crosstown by slowing down the cash flow and do the tunnels in 5 years than another 5 for the stations. The approach seem to have spread to every future projects.

No I don't agree that the PCs are just buffing. They'll tender all 4 projects for empty tunnels. They'll all complete in 2025-27 with no stations, tracks or trains just like the Crosstown did. The next government would be stuck with them and if they fail to deliver, they'll take the blame.
The largest issue is funding.

The way Ontario funds projects is different than Quebec and BC. We release funding slowly as projects go on, to lower the lending and debt that incurs with large scale investments. But it means a slower project build out.

Not only that, but both BC and Quebec seem to be securing funding from Pension Funds and other sources whereas Ontario does not. I have no idea why that is.

Quebecs pension invests in transit whereas ours in the Blue Jays...
 

rbt

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Quebecs pension invests in transit whereas ours in the Blue Jays...
Quebec government managed pension funds are legislated to take lower ROI when it benefits the province as a whole. This has a side-effect of requiring higher contributions by employees to achieve the same payout BUT they would argue the province is a more attractive place to live. At the moment it's working as an indirect tax for transit construction. That said, I think REM is going to be paying a decent profit at 72 cents per km per passenger; government will be paying that rate topping up the difference between passenger fares and contracted fees.

Ontario's (OMERS, and Teachers) are largely managed by the unions themselves and seek highest sustainable recession resistant ROI. Highway 407 is 50% pension owned.
 
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Coolstar

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I mean the Eglinton subway only was planned from Eglinton West station to Mount Dennis.

So, its hard to say specifically how you could extrapolate that into a timeline with the full system.

Maybe take 15 years off the 35 years?
They were but they were eventually going to extend it to Renforth or potentially Pearson airport.
Eglinton_West_Line.png
 

H4F33Z

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They were but they were eventually going to extend it to Renforth or potentially Pearson airport.
View attachment 231378
This line map from the Wikipedia article of the Eglinton West subway with theoretical stops. It was always planned to end at York Centre (Mount Dennis) and anything past that station is a pipe dream or a consideration. It's similar to the Sheppard Subway where we only got 4 stations instead of STC. I agree, a subway to the Airport would be nice though. And they could've even extended it east to yonge or don mills.
 

Steve X

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This line map from the Wikipedia article of the Eglinton West subway with theoretical stops. It was always planned to end at York Centre (Mount Dennis) and anything past that station is a pipe dream or a consideration. It's similar to the Sheppard Subway where we only got 4 stations instead of STC. I agree, a subway to the Airport would be nice though. And they could've even extended it east to yonge or don mills.
Those stops do appear in an ancient TTC plan, "Network 2011" from ~1985. Transit Toronto is probably the only online source of that: https://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5112.shtml

I agree that a full subway to the airport would never be built nor a subway east of Yonge. Definitely not east of Don Mills on Eg.

York Centre is actually at Black Creek and doesn't extend under the railway with a bus and pickup/drop off facility at the No Frills plaza. There was a plan to develop the Kodak land into something great. Hence initially people after upset to see it turn into a giant carhouse.

So the crosstown got a few hundred meter west of the Eg West subway with an entrance on Weston instead. Which we can all agree is better. Plus an addition of Oakwood station.
 

Coolstar

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Those stops do appear in an ancient TTC plan, "Network 2011" from ~1985. Transit Toronto is probably the only online source of that: https://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5112.shtml

I agree that a full subway to the airport would never be built nor a subway east of Yonge. Definitely not east of Don Mills on Eg.

York Centre is actually at Black Creek and doesn't extend under the railway with a bus and pickup/drop off facility at the No Frills plaza. There was a plan to develop the Kodak land into something great. Hence initially people after upset to see it turn into a giant carhouse.

So the crosstown got a few hundred meter west of the Eg West subway with an entrance on Weston instead. Which we can all agree is better. Plus an addition of Oakwood station.
So in reality, the Eglinton West Subway wasn't really cancelled. It was delayed for a long time and was brought back to New life as an LRT that travels further than the original line. Albeit less capacity.
 

W. K. Lis

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So in reality, the Eglinton West Subway wasn't really cancelled. It was delayed for a long time and was brought back to New life as an LRT that travels further than the original line. Albeit less capacity.
Well, there is an "express rapid transit" available from Weston and Bloor to Union, currently. When the Crosstown LRT opens in 2021, there will be another "express station" added on at Mt. Dennis to get to Union.

Too bad the discount between TTC, GO, and UPX ends at the end of March, 2020. Thanks to the folks at Queen's Park. See link.
 

warrens

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GTA became trash at building subways. So Vancouver can plan to complete the 6km Broadway subway in 5 years, why does it take 10 years here?
Well now hang on a minute there. The Broadway extension is going to take 5 years to build, which wasn't significantly less time than the pre-Ford Relief Line construction timeline estimate of 6 years. The study and planning phases of extending mass transit across Broadway stretches well back into the 1990s!

Also, consider that the Relief Line would be relatively more complex to plan and build due to having to get over (or under) the Don River.. Plus, the Broadway-City Hall station (which opened 10 years ago) was designed from the start to accommodate a future connection. Osgoode and Pape stations were not.... Queen Station was designed to accommodate an east-west subway line, but that tunnel has been repurposed to be the underground passageway between the east/west side of the tracks.
 

micheal_can

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Well now hang on a minute there. The Broadway extension is going to take 5 years to build, which wasn't significantly less time than the pre-Ford Relief Line construction timeline estimate of 6 years. The study and planning phases of extending mass transit across Broadway stretches well back into the 1990s!

Also, consider that the Relief Line would be relatively more complex to plan and build due to having to get over (or under) the Don River.. Plus, the Broadway-City Hall station (which opened 10 years ago) was designed from the start to accommodate a future connection. Osgoode and Pape stations were not.... Queen Station was designed to accommodate an east-west subway line, but that tunnel has been repurposed to be the underground passageway between the east/west side of the tracks.
Are there shovels in the ground yet? Why not look at the University extension. That extension is 8.6km and took almost 10 years. Relief Line will take at least 10 years.
 

Steve X

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Well now hang on a minute there. The Broadway extension is going to take 5 years to build, which wasn't significantly less time than the pre-Ford Relief Line construction timeline estimate of 6 years. The study and planning phases of extending mass transit across Broadway stretches well back into the 1990s!

Also, consider that the Relief Line would be relatively more complex to plan and build due to having to get over (or under) the Don River.. Plus, the Broadway-City Hall station (which opened 10 years ago) was designed from the start to accommodate a future connection. Osgoode and Pape stations were not.... Queen Station was designed to accommodate an east-west subway line, but that tunnel has been repurposed to be the underground passageway between the east/west side of the tracks.
Besides the Ontario Line, Eg West, Yonge North and Scarbrorugh subway are all going to take 8-10 years for a relatively straight forward extension in the suburbs. Eg West totally anticipates an extension westwards.

So in reality, the Eglinton West Subway wasn't really cancelled. It was delayed for a long time and was brought back to New life as an LRT that travels further than the original line. Albeit less capacity.
I'm pretty certain Eglinton West subway would had operated with exactly what's on Sheppard (4 car TR's with manual operation). The signal system would be in place till the 2050s. The capacity could be similar with wider trains, similar length but less frequent headways. Of course they'll need higher capacity LRVs than the Flexity's to match that.
 

CapitalSeven

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This line map from the Wikipedia article of the Eglinton West subway with theoretical stops. It was always planned to end at York Centre (Mount Dennis) and anything past that station is a pipe dream or a consideration. It's similar to the Sheppard Subway where we only got 4 stations instead of STC. I agree, a subway to the Airport would be nice though. And they could've even extended it east to yonge or don mills.
Apologies for the poor image. This is from an open house in 1992. At the time they were considering 2 technologies - full subway or something lighter - and 2 routes to the airport - via 27/Dixon or via Renforth.

1582027644592.png
 

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warrens

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Are there shovels in the ground yet? Why not look at the University extension. That extension is 8.6km and took almost 10 years. Relief Line will take at least 10 years.
Actually yes, there are several places where preliminary construction and geological work is taking place.

It's all documented on Metrolinx's Ontario Line web site. Here's the current list of work sites, it's updated every few days.

1582041642415.png
 

micheal_can

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Actually yes, there are several places where preliminary construction and geological work is taking place.

It's all documented on Metrolinx's Ontario Line web site. Here's the current list of work sites, it's updated every few days.

View attachment 231697
So, no.

Drilling and survey work is not the same as construction. If they are not moving utilities or actually digging the tunnels or the station boxes, construction has not begun in my books.
 

warrens

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Besides the Ontario Line, Eg West, Yonge North and Scarbrorugh subway are all going to take 8-10 years for a relatively straight forward extension in the suburbs. Eg West totally anticipates an extension westwards.
Including design, planning, procurements, utility relocations, etc., sure, you're looking at 10+ years for a project. That's a normal amount of time in many places around the world.
Example: Paris's newest subway line, a 9km route, took about 10 years to design and build.
Example: Tokyo' Fukutoshin Line, also their newest subway, was over 20 years from conception to completion... also a 9km line.

But just to build? No. In the case of TYSSE, station contracts were awarded in late 2011 - mid 2013, digging the tunnels started in mid-2011, and the whole line was open for service at the end of 2017. That's 6.5 years. Mixed into this was a four month delay due to the death of a worker at one of the sites, and gross management and negligence by the two Spanish construction contractor firms that were brought in to do the build. They had to be kicked out and another company was brought in. Neither firm is likely to get a large public transit project again in Canada because of it.
 

denfromoakvillemilton

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Including design, planning, procurements, utility relocations, etc., sure, you're looking at 10+ years for a project. That's a normal amount of time in many places around the world.
Example: Paris's newest subway line, a 9km route, took about 10 years to design and build.
Example: Tokyo' Fukutoshin Line, also their newest subway, was over 20 years from conception to completion... also a 9km line.

But just to build? No. In the case of TYSSE, station contracts were awarded in late 2011 - mid 2013, digging the tunnels started in mid-2011, and the whole line was open for service at the end of 2017. That's 6.5 years. Mixed into this was a four month delay due to the death of a worker at one of the sites, and gross management and negligence by the two Spanish construction contractor firms that were brought in to do the build. They had to be kicked out and another company was brought in. Neither firm is likely to get a large public transit project again in Canada because of it.
Welcome to UT :)!
 

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