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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate

What do you believe should be done on the Eglinton Corridor?

  • Do Nothing

    Votes: 5 1.3%

  • Build the Eglinton Crosstown LRT as per Transit City

    Votes: 140 36.9%

  • Revive the Eglinton Subway

    Votes: 226 59.6%

  • Other (Explain in post)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • Total voters
    379
fail-owned-fitness-fail.jpg
 
RedRocket191,

Something like this actually exists at the Extreme Fitness Bay/Bloor location.
 
JPG said:
RedRocket191,

Something like this actually exists at the Extreme Fitness Bay/Bloor location.
Click to expand...

And that's very sad...

cacruden said:
^ You will have to give me a movie since those escalators could be going backwards :eek:
Click to expand...

It's failblog! It's not about truth! It's about flame wars and trolling!:D
 
JPG said:
RedRocket191,

Something like this actually exists at the Extreme Fitness Bay/Bloor location.
Click to expand...

Take a look at TLS and you have 3 floors like this to get to their place.

OH!! an elevator is coming on line later this year solely for their own use.
 
carrefour said:
I love how in this report they point to Amsterdam, Stockholm, Montpellier and Strasbourg as examples ... having myself spent some time in MontP and Stras, How can they compare T.O., the 4th largest metro arean in N.America to towns that are smaller in population than London, Ontario?

Until you have been to the Eglinton West corridor, you can't imagine how busy it is. How come ridership levels warrented the beginning of construction of a subway in 1995 but now it doesn't?

People: LRT is not the Jesus Christ of Public Transportation.

It works only within the grand scale of transit:

Minibus --> Bus --> Streetcar --> LRT (grade separated) --> Metro --> Commuter rail (REX) --> Regional Rail (GO) --> High speed rail (VIA) --> Airplane

"As Canada is a huge and expansive country, a national rail system could never work other than a tourist train - Toronto to Winnipeg is almost 1 day away and there is really nothing in between"

So the time it takes to travel 5k on Minibus = 10k on Bus = 15k on Streetcar = etc.

The back bone of the network in a city of 2.5 million cannot be LRT (which will be no more than a souped-up streetcar, considering the ttc can't even get signal priority for Spadina and Queen, 2 line that are almost a real LRT)
Click to expand...

Ridership levels on eglinton never did justity starting a subway, nor do future projections justify building one now. It was just a political pet project the first time that had nothing to do with serving transit riders.

The eglinton west subway was originally planned to be build as a busway, until politics got involved
 
carrefour said:
...

Until you have been to the Eglinton West corridor, you can't imagine how busy it is. How come ridership levels warrented the beginning of construction of a subway in 1995 but now it doesn't?
...
Click to expand...

The 1995 Eglinton West Subway project was for a subway from Allen Road (Spadina Subway) to Black Creek Drive, just west of Keele Street and Tretheway Drive (period). A distance of about 4 km.

The Eglinton Crosstown LRT from Renforth or the Airport to Kennedy Subway is a total of 27 km. 23 km longer. 10 km of which will be underground.

A lot more service, with two additional connections with the subway.
 
Voltz said:
Ridership levels on eglinton never did justity starting a subway, nor do future projections justify building one now. It was just a political pet project the first time that had nothing to do with serving transit riders.

The eglinton west subway was originally planned to be build as a busway, until politics got involved
Click to expand...

One thing I don't understand, if Eglinton doesn't justify a full subway, does Yonge North Of Steeles to Hi-way 7? Does it come even close?
 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080905.wtransit05/BNStory/National/Ontario/

Metrolinx aims for consensus with TTC

JENNIFER LEWINGTON

From Friday's Globe and Mail

September 5, 2008 at 3:52 AM EDT

Keen to play down a brewing fight with the city, the head of the province's new regional transportation agency said yesterday he is "still optimistic" about reaching a consensus on forecasts of future transit ridership on Eglinton Avenue.

"I concede we don't have perfect alignment but I am optimistic it is something that we can work towards with the TTC [Toronto Transit Commission]," said Metrolinx chairman Rob MacIsaac.

Time is of the essence to settle the fight, with Metrolinx set to release a draft transportation plan for the next 25 years - worth $55-billion - by the end of this month.

According to an unreleased draft made public this week, the agency raises the possibility of a subway or an underground version of the Scarborough RT line along Eglinton.

But these options assume ridership levels twice that of the 52.8 million projection by 2021 made by the TTC for a new light-rail line along Eglinton. TTC chairman Adam Giambrone, one of four Toronto representatives on the Metrolinx board, said that even if Metrolinx's ridership forecasts were accurate, they would still be too low to justify a subway or an intermediate transit technology to carry more riders than the TTC's light-rail transit.

Mr. Giambrone said the TTC's forecasts of future demand are based on the city's Official Plan and the province's Transportation for Tomorrow Survey.
Click to expand...
 
Giambrone always seems to know things that either no one else knows for sure or everyone knows in the opposite.
 
But these options assume ridership levels twice that of the 52.8 million projection by 2021 made by the TTC for a new light-rail line along Eglinton. TTC chairman Adam Giambrone, one of four Toronto representatives on the Metrolinx board, said that even if Metrolinx's ridership forecasts were accurate, they would still be too low to justify a subway or an intermediate transit technology to carry more riders than the TTC's light-rail transit.
Click to expand...

So according to Giambrone, 105.6 million riders is too low for a subway??? What the hell is this guy smoking. That is a equivalent of well over 300k riders per weekday... close to the 400k of the Bloor-Danforth line. Does this mean we should convert the Bloor-Danforth line to LRT as well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they did at this point.
 
Didn't you know? LRT is practically perfect in every way. As long as the absolute maximum theoretical capacity of an LRT line operated under ideal conditions by the TTC (and assuming heavier set riders suck their guts in at all times, assuming we get a warm winter so people wear thinner coats, and assuming no one brings strollers or backpacks or briefcases or large purses or canes on board) might conceivably carry enough riders that only an acceptably small portion are left behind waiting at stations or driven off to cars or other routes, then this LRT line *must* get built. How dare anyone question this! It's the only option people!
 
doady said:
So according to Giambrone, 105.6 million riders is too low for a subway??? What the hell is this guy smoking. That is a equivalent of well over 300k riders per weekday... close to the 400k of the Bloor-Danforth line. Does this mean we should convert the Bloor-Danforth line to LRT as well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they did at this point.
Click to expand...

That PDF clearly indicated that the optimum ridership for the Eglinton route would only half the ridership required for a subway in 2031.
 
Ridership projections should not be the sole criteria for the choice of technology. Moreover, ridership on Eglinton will depend on the chosen technology.

If Eglinton gets light rail, it will act primarily as a premium local service, plus get some airport goers. Light rail will be able to cope with demand.

But if it gets a subway, the ridership will be much higher, simply because many passengers will shift from Bloor subway to Eglinton.

Really, the issue is funding. If we can afford one new E-W subway (Eglinton or Sheppard) but not both, I'm not sure that it should be Eglinton. Eglinton may have a greater local build-up potential, but Sheppard is probably more useful from the network perspective:

1) Sheppard (or Wilson) is about half way between two other major transit corridors, Bloor and HWy 7 (the latter is likely to get some rapid transit in future). Eglinton is much closer to Bloor and will partly duplicate it, especially in the east since the Bloor - Danforth line goes to Kennedy / Eglinton.

2) Eglinton is close to the North Toronto rail line, which might get REX service in future and provide a fast E-W service. There is no such alternative at the Sheppard / Wilson "altitude".

3) Due to the Lake's geometry, Toronto is wider E-W in the north than at Eglinton level. Therefore, a fast E-W link in the north is important.

So, it might be a good idea to quickly build LRT on Eglinton, and then start gradually expanding the Sheppard (or Sheppard - Wilson) subway line.
 
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