rbt
Senior Member
A 2016 start, in escalated dollars, gives it a present value of about $1.4B.
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Eglinton-Crosstown Corridor Debate
- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
A 2016 start, in escalated dollars, gives it a present value of about $1.4B.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
How does the price rise go from $1.4 to $2.4 billion in 6 years..............absurd! The NEW line in Vancouver will also include a one km tunnel due to going thru a narrow part of a busy residential road. Heads should roll over this but they won't. It's reaons like this why Toronto's mass transit expansion has gone no where in 20 years.
How did Vancouver complete a 20km Metro system including a tunnel downtown, under False Creek, continue underground a further 11 km with some very steep inclines, a huge tall exclusive bridge over the mighty Fraser which includes bike and pedestrian lanes underneath it, a further bridge to the airport with service to literally the front door and service to Richmond Centre, new bus terminals, bus HOV lanes along the freeway to get there, a new fleet, a brand new maintenance building and command centre all with 15,000 PPHPD for $2.2 billion?
How is it that in Calgary where labour costs are higher than Toronto and the land prices the same is building an NEW 8 km LRT for $850 million but is true LRT? It is true rapid transit in a true mass transit system with 80 metre covered and heated stations, complete ROW whith no interaction with streets at all, a half KM tunnel, and a new fleet to serve it and two new Park n Rides.
Toronto should take TC bake to it's original prices, put out bids, no escalated dollars, and begin construction immediately which most of it could even with the cut backs. .
How did Vancouver complete a 20km Metro system including a tunnel downtown, under False Creek, continue underground a further 11 km with some very steep inclines, a huge tall exclusive bridge over the mighty Fraser which includes bike and pedestrian lanes underneath it, a further bridge to the airport with service to literally the front door and service to Richmond Centre, new bus terminals, bus HOV lanes along the freeway to get there, a new fleet, a brand new maintenance building and command centre all with 15,000 PPHPD for $2.2 billion?
How is it that in Calgary where labour costs are higher than Toronto and the land prices the same is building an NEW 8 km LRT for $850 million but is true LRT? It is true rapid transit in a true mass transit system with 80 metre covered and heated stations, complete ROW whith no interaction with streets at all, a half KM tunnel, and a new fleet to serve it and two new Park n Rides.
Toronto should take TC bake to it's original prices, put out bids, no escalated dollars, and begin construction immediately which most of it could even with the cut backs. .
nfitz
Superstar
That's only about 9.4% inflation. That's a bit above the recent construction price index values ... but not much, particularly from about 2004-2008. Perhaps they've also added something ... though perhaps the bulk of the construction has shifted more than 6 years ..
I'd hardly call it absurd though ... it doesn't seem grossly out of line with the inflation we've seen in that sector!
SlickFranky
Active Member
I don't think you understand what's happening here, or what 'escalated dollars' means.
"Toronto" doesn't control how much these things cost. Essentially, they place orders for what they need and firms come back telling them how much that will cost. Generally whichever firm comes back with the cheapest valid bid wins the contract. If part of their demand is that it can only cost X dollars, and that price is not doable with their specifications, then no firm will be able to submit a valid bid.
The scope of the projects hasn't changed since the initial TC announcement. The cost escalations are due to poor initial estimates, and inflation (overall, and within that industry).
As for the escalated dollars...that is a factor in every project, it's just not discussed. You can't tell a firm to build something in 4 years, but at todays prices.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
$2 Billion for an SRT upgrade, but still have to transfer at Kennedy.....
Better of scrapping the SRT and having that route be made part of the GO Network and integrating the fare system, at least you can stay on one train and go all the way to Union and relieve both subway lines.
Better of scrapping the SRT and having that route be made part of the GO Network and integrating the fare system, at least you can stay on one train and go all the way to Union and relieve both subway lines.
I know this is a totally random question, but are there any in-median or curbside LRT systems in the world that you can think of that run anything longer than a 2-car trainset? I know Calgary runs 3-car sets and includes a transit mall downtown. I've been trying to promote the DOTT project in Ottawa to show that the tunnel is needed (yes, I'm actually actively promoting an LRT project). The headway projections that I have created for the at-grade model assumed a maximum of 3-car trainsets (presumably for the safety issues associated with running longer trains at-grade through downtown streets). I was just wondering if this assumption was correct. If it is correct, the numbers show quite clearly that the tunnel is needed, and that at-grade simply won't have the capacity that is needed.
I know I should have probably posted this in the Ottawa LRT thread, but it's been dead for months, so I figured I would post this some place where someone might actually read it, haha.
I know I should have probably posted this in the Ottawa LRT thread, but it's been dead for months, so I figured I would post this some place where someone might actually read it, haha.
Darwinkgo
Active Member
Calgary will be running 4 car trains (100m) in median soon enough, and Edmonton will be running 5 car trains (125m) in a similar fashion.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Mississauga Bus Rapid Transit is
But the Eglinton Crosstown LRT will only go as far west as Jane Street, and then only by 2018. The remainder of the surface LRT to Renforth and the airport is to be finished who-knows-when. Shouldn't that BRT continue on to at least Jane Street or the Spadina HRT subway, until the whole LRT is completed?
But the Eglinton Crosstown LRT will only go as far west as Jane Street, and then only by 2018. The remainder of the surface LRT to Renforth and the airport is to be finished who-knows-when. Shouldn't that BRT continue on to at least Jane Street or the Spadina HRT subway, until the whole LRT is completed?
Tuscani01
Senior Member
That was already answered in the other thread you asked in. BRT buses will take the 427 down to Islington Station.
leopetr
Active Member
Mixed traffic buses can continue there. If there isn't money for street-median LRT, there isn't money for street-median or trench BRT.
TTCrider
New Member
Why not maintain busses on the central underground section with LRT stations at major transit interchanges ( or very high use stops) only ?
This would result in large savings as underground stations are extremely expensive compared with running tunnels.
A rush hour express bus service on Eglinton in the near future if coupled with extension of no parking or stopping hours and enforcement would develop traffic to allow the initial operation of the LRT with design passenger loads and hence a provide a return on the LRT investment.
This would result in large savings as underground stations are extremely expensive compared with running tunnels.
A rush hour express bus service on Eglinton in the near future if coupled with extension of no parking or stopping hours and enforcement would develop traffic to allow the initial operation of the LRT with design passenger loads and hence a provide a return on the LRT investment.
Palma
Senior Member
That's the question that should be asked of Metrolinx - I could only imagine the convoluted answer they will give and actually expect the public will buy.
They would dodge it more than Tony Clement dodged giving a straight answer about how why the long form census was scrapped...
CN Tower
Banned
Eglinton Crosstown Stations
Can someone please tell me where the new subway will stop along Eglinton? Have the new station locations been selected yet?
Thank you!
Can someone please tell me where the new subway will stop along Eglinton? Have the new station locations been selected yet?
Thank you!