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Dwt Toronto has lost its position as retail mecca to 905

They looked at the top 20 retail markets, and these are retail "hotspots" within those markets - basically superconcentrations, by forward sortation area (3-digit postal code, ie M5V).

Markham-Unionville cluster included 20 shopping centres (including Markville, Pacific Mall) and 1 power centre.

Downtown Saskatoon is a small FSA, and has a major mall and a power centre within it - this would result in it being very high concentration.

Though some might be disappointed with this: Mississauga Square One cluster dropped off the list in 2005.
 
That makes more sense ($/space). Pacific Mall and Market Village are huge magnets, as is Vaughan Mills.
 
Just shows that you can use numbers to show something and nothing at the same time. Waste of time.
 
Just think of how much more exciting downtown Toronto would be if we didn't have all those dreadful, ugly malls in suburbia. Heck, we might have even been able to support a few real department stores and have thriving streets, like downtown Montreal. Strip malls and big box stores are the worst. shouldn't HUGE, ugly parking lots be located behind shopping malls, instead of right on a main st. sidewalk? If the malls were lined up to the sidewalk and all cars parked behind, it would be 100% nicer in the burbs. Hey, why don't builders build condos on top of those huge malls? Why not make better use of the space, increase density, improve the look and the stores have customers right at your door step. Just think of how many condo towers could fit right into a huge space like Yorkdale? It's a win-win situation. It's right on the subway, why not take advantage of that?
It's amazing how downtown Chicago can support so many HUGE department stores and downtown Toronto struggles with just a few. Can somebody explain that? Is Chicago that much wealthier then Toronto? It's not that much bigger in population. We kick their asses in new condos going up though!!!lol Will all the new condos increase shopping downtown? Let's hope so. Why doesn't this city redevelop those out dated malls, or at least prevent more from going up? Oh god, I've been reading too much Toronto Star, there I go dreaming again. lol (It was excellant though)
 
The short answer is: because this isn't a game of SimCity. One of the most curious things about this board is the persistent use, in some corners, of the pronoun 'we'. As in: 'we should build more condos over subway stations' or 'we really need to build a 1500-foot supertall' or 'we need an express bus to my hou' - never mind.

If something hasn't been built somewhere, it's because it's cheaper or more profitable to build it somewhere else, or because there's no demand for it there, or because there's no demand for it anywhere at all, because it's a daft idea (ref: 1500-foot super-talls). And there is that small business about the private ownership of land. Don't make me go Ayn Rand on your ass.

The point is, there's nothing WE about it, unless Harry's skulking about here somewhere. The construction industry is not guided by a beneficent force in the mayor's office, stroking his chin and pondering where we're going to build our next condo. The industry builds where it can get land and turn a profit without getting called out by the OMB.

There is always the possibility of expropriating land and handing it over to industry, an approach that Ryserson students can thank for the lecture halls they've been enjoying in the AMC multiplex at Yonge and Dundas that opened on schedule in 2001...

Okay, I'm done.
 
Is Chicago that much wealthier then Toronto?
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Not at all. They do concentrate most of their improvement funds into a smaller portion of the city though which makes for some great areas for photography.

Leave those small areas (core, Hyde Park, Lincoln Park) and you will quickly wish you were in any average Toronto neighbourhood.

Even the Chicago waterfront is plagued with uneven or chipped concrete break-walls (supposed to be a boardwalk?) by Grant Park and Lincoln Park. After all of the hyping of Millennium Park, it was disappointing to see the dock walks in disrepair directly East.

Most of the Chicago transit system feels like riding an old wooden roller coaster -- in fact, a good chunk of it is built the same way. Poorly lit wooden platforms with entrances to the El cars that aren't level with the platform. Yes, it is an extensive network, but after using it for a few days I quickly realized why ridership is where it is.


All of this is to say that Chicago decided its priorities long ago and concentrates funding into those specific areas. Michigan is great but State, Dearborn, Clark, LaSalle, Wells aren't so hot. Toronto has different priorities and tends to spread its money out a little more.

It is not surprising that the two cities have different positive and negative points. Both cities have a lot they can learn from each-other.


I do find the triple decked streets between Randolph and Wacker to be quite fascinating. The trend must have been started before the Aon Centre was built, but there are still a number of large open pits waiting for a building (3 stories of parking really) to being it up to the top street level.

Another thing I found interesting is the wholesale demolishing of smaller buildings. I found very few examples of facadism or preservation in Chicago of smaller (10 storeys or less) buildings.
 
It's amazing how downtown Chicago can support so many HUGE department stores and downtown Toronto struggles with just a few. Can somebody explain that?
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Probably has a lot to do with history. Chicago was (and remains) the rail capital of the United States, which made shipping goods in and out of the city easy and cheap. Many of the department stores in Chicago started out as mail catalogue businesses which grew rich and diversified into the department store business. Toronto never claimed the same position in Canada, except with the Eaton's empire.

Unfortunately we can't turn back the clock and add some more classic department stores to our downtown, but I think it doesn't really matter. Toronto's downtown still manages to draw throngs of people even though much of the retail is in specialty stores.

Why doesn't this city redevelop those out dated malls, or at least prevent more from going up?
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I don't think there's any need to worry about new malls being developed in the City of Toronto, aside from a couple of Chinese malls going up in the top of Scarborough.
 
Probably has a lot to do with history. Chicago was (and remains) the rail capital of the United States, which made shipping goods in and out of the city easy and cheap. Many of the department stores in Chicago started out as mail catalogue businesses which grew rich and diversified into the department store business. Toronto never claimed the same position in Canada, except with the Eaton's empire.
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Chicago had a much larger poplation than Toronto in the era of department stores so it figures they would have more today. Chicago metro is still a few million larger than Toronto's which helps today.

BTW, the Eaton empire at one point controlled some 50% of retail sales in Canada. They were huge.
 
Department stores are still very popular places to shop in the US. Go to your average mall in the US and you'll find three department stores.

Canada or Toronto's department store culture was never as strong. With the loss of Eatons and the Bay barely getting by, there are few left. Compare Chicago's independent store culture to Toronto's and you'll see where our city shines.
 
Rbtaylor, I was only comparing Toronto's department store situation, to Chicago's. I've been all over Chicago, so I am well aware of the fact that Toronto spreads the cash around and no areas is left to rot. Don't misunderstand me, I may criticise the things in Toronto I find lacking but I do realize how lucky we really are. I do appreciate Toronto and I wouldn't trade it for Chicago. After reading so much about how great Cjicago was, in Canadian newspapers, I was a bit surprised to see Chicago's rundown subways and the depressing state of the south side. I have never seen a city more racially divided. (they never mentioned those things in the Sun, Star or National Post articles I read) You got to give Chicago credit for Millenium Park though, it really is impressive. Toronto definatly has a lot to be proud of. I just wish we still had the old Simpson's and Eaton's stores, they were great places.
 
I was only comparing Toronto's department store situation, to Chicago's.
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Sorry. I just got back from Chicago on Sunday and was going through photos at the time. Evidentally I forgot the department store portion of the thread.
 
The USA is larger and has more department stores. Thats why Chicago has more department stores downtown.

But other then that downtown Toronto represents all the department stores left in Canada. SEARS, THE BAY, and Holt Renfrew.

The USA is having problems now with downtown department stores. MACY'S has bought out all the regional chains from the MAY COMPANY.

Two of the largest stores being closed in American downtowns is Strawbridges in downtown Philly, and Filenes in downtown Boston. These mega stores are being closed down since there is already stores in both downtowns which we will be turned in MACY'S.

In Chicago's case they have to find out what is going to happen with the MARSHALL FIELDS Water Tower Place. As there is two Marshall Fields stores in downtown Chicago, and the landmark one on State Street is turning into MACY's.

Also Lord and Taylor is up for sale, which is also a big question mark now for the store on Michigan Ave. Because who knows what will happen if the chain gets sold off.
 
"Just think of how much more exciting downtown Toronto would be if we didn't have all those dreadful, ugly malls in suburbia. Heck, we might have even been able to support a few real department stores and have thriving streets, like downtown Montreal."

We do have thriving streets...and Montreal has big box stores too.


Strip malls and big box stores are the worst. shouldn't HUGE, ugly parking lots be located behind shopping malls, instead of right on a main st. sidewalk? If the malls were lined up to the sidewalk and all cars parked behind, it would be 100% nicer in the burbs. Hey, why don't builders build condos on top of those huge malls? Why not make better use of the space, increase density, improve the look and the stores have customers right at your door step. Just think of how many condo towers could fit right into a huge space like Yorkdale? It's a win-win situation. It's right on the subway, why not take advantage of that?
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I agree.
 
Lord & Taylor (America's Dress Address) has struggled for years through declining sales and various unsucessful attempts to compete with specialty retailers (Ann Taylor, Banana Republic, Talbots) for customers. If it disappears, it won't be Federated's fault.

Interestingly, a generation ago, Talbots was a single store, midwest preppy outpost called The Talbots'.
 
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