Durham Region Transit / Pulse

[Northern Light]

This is only the regional government; the municipalities (think Pickering, Ajax, Oshawa etc.) also collect their share...so all in all, more than 10% increase on the bill

The local numbers are tentatively factored in to the above as I understand it, at 2.5%

As I understand it, that is not how taxes work. I thought they calculate a budget, and divvy up according to assessed value. That is, if everyone's property value increased by a million, it doesn't change a thing in terms of dollars collected.

Your understanding is essentially correct; however, there is such a thing as 'assessment growth'.

So there is total assessment and relative assessment.
When property A rises in value faster than property B, A 's taxes rise and B's decline. Presuming total assessment is essentially static.

If the value properties A and B rise at the same rate then everyone's taxes stay the same, (absent a voted increase); again, if total assessment is static.

But when total assessment increases, the same rate will generate more revenue.
You can see this in the presentation I linked. Without assessment growth, the proposed increase would be closer to 12%

Assessment growth occurs when a property shifts to a more intense or dense state of being and/or shifts to a higher tax classification.

Example, a farmer's field will pay a lower rate of assessment per acre than will a subdivision that replaces it; and in turn a midrise condo will pay more than a subdivision (per ft2).

The key there is whether the assessment grows faster than the cost of servicing said land.

The farmer's field at the edge of the urban area may not be serviced, and won't have any public roads in its interior, when it becomes a subdivision, there's sewer, water, garbage pick-up, a new park, probably a new school, another fire hall perhaps etc etc.

So its a question as to whether that 'nominal' growth will favourably affect the budget.

But a new midrise on Kingston Road, already served by a fire hall, sewer, water, garbage pickup etc. will have a much lower cost increment of new/enhanced service and will likely result in lower effective taxes for others.

 

[Coolibop]

The local numbers are tentatively factored in to the above as I understand it, at 2.5%

Ah thanks missed that. Interesting that is it in line with previous year increases and slightly below the typical share (for lower tier municipalities like Pickering/Ajax/Whitby); which is typically between 30-34% of the total bill including schoolboard taxes - as much as I'm happy to see monies going to DRT, I imagine there are pressures at the local level too! As they state in the video...this is only the beginning of the negotiations.

 

[Coolibop]

Ah thanks missed that. Interesting that is it in line with previous year increases and slightly below the typical share (for lower tier municipalities like Pickering/Ajax/Whitby); which is typically between 30-34% of the total bill including schoolboard taxes - as much as I'm happy to see monies going to DRT, I imagine there are pressures at the local level too! As they state in the video...this is only the beginning of the negotiations.

The local numbers are tentatively factored in to the above as I understand it, at 2.5%

Circling back on this, it does not include municipal taxes. So this 9.75 percent is actually closer to 5 percent (of total tax bill) as the region represents about half the bill.

 

[APTA-2048]

Some equipment news for those interested: the TTC buses should be going back at the end of this week. Apparently DRT has a longer term fleet solution set up for October.

 

[tmustudent9]

Some equipment news for those interested: the TTC buses should be going back at the end of this week. Apparently DRT has a longer term fleet solution set up for October.

Do we have any idea whether it’ll be long term leases or that DRT will be buying used buses?

 

[APTA-2048]

Do we have any idea whether it’ll be long term leases or that DRT will be buying used buses?

From what I understand, they’ll be getting second hand buses from a dealer. However it hasn’t been confirmed yet whether they are purchasing them or leasing them for the long-term.

 

[Coolibop]

Also of note.......from a separate report, the window for which I closed, so you'll have to take my word for it............LOL

Ridership is now at or above pre-pandemic levels for DRT.

The data is in the upcoming meeting minutes:

 

[turbanplanner]

The data is in the upcoming meeting minutes:

View attachment 509743

I'm really surprised, I don't know a single person in Durham who goes into work more than once a week (though this is my personal bubble) I wonder what the demographics are of the increase

 

[Coolibop]

Not surprising, DRT is last among comparator transit agencies in revenue hours of service per capita as mentioned in the upcoming agenda to build a new brand for DRT (expected launch sometime between '25-27; section 2.5, item b). So, although back/exceeding pre-pandemic levels, there is still lots of room to improve...

I perceive Durham ridership as very binary/suburban... Outside of the GO train into the city, I imagine you either transit or drive everywhere. If you can do the latter, you probably will not take transit here where it can easily take double the time to a destination including walking to/from stops. Unless you're on highway 2/kingston Rd, your transit can be quite inconvinient unless you have the time of day like I (am lucky to) do.

I would also imagine that if you have the liberty of still working most of the time from home, you may be in a role where you could afford a car?

 

[Northern Light]

Not surprising, DRT is last among comparator transit agencies in revenue hours of service per capita as mentioned in the upcoming agenda to build a new brand for DRT (expected launch sometime between '25-27; section 2.5, item b). So, although back/exceeding pre-pandemic levels, there is still lots of room to improve...

I perceive Durham ridership as very binary/suburban... Outside of the GO train into the city, I imagine you either transit or drive everywhere. If you can do the latter, you probably will not take transit here where it can easily take double the time to a destination including walking to/from stops. Unless you're on highway 2/kingston Rd, your transit can be quite inconvinient unless you have the time of day like I (am lucky to) do.

I would also imagine that if you have the liberty of still working most of the time from home, you may be in a role where you could afford a car?

I have to say, I rank Durham above YRT at this point.

It has at least 2 routes if not 3 or 4 that offer every 15M or better service at most times (rush hours, weekday and weekend daytime, early evenings)

It has limited 24 hour services

Neither of the above are true of YRT/VIVA.

YRT likely burns up some hours of service per capita covering a larger area w/scheduled services, and somewhat greater route density, particularly N-S routes in the east end.

But I don't know that that reflects in terms of convenience of the typical rider.

*****

Lots of room for DRT to improve and I'm glad they have been and continue to pursue more.

****

Don't agree w/re-branding, VIVA has not made YRT a good service, MiWay /MiWay express has not made Mississauga Transit great either.

Zum was arguably helpful in Brampton, but that's because it actually represented more and better service, which is really where the money should go.

DRT is a fine brand, a new name/logo or livery is unlikely to add a single rider.

Instead, get 12-15 routes up to a minimum service level of every 15M or better, 6am-10pm on weekdays, 8am-10pm on weekends, and a minimum of every 30M at all other times, (or the current service level, whichever is better), from 6am-1:30am 7 days a per week.

Then add 24-hour service to most of the above routes.

Then get those spine services, maybe just Hwy 2, and 1 N-S that reaches each of the GO Stations, to every 10M or better on weekdays 6am-1:30am, and every 15M or better at all other times.

That will drive ridership growth, along with better bus stops (shelter, seating, next vehicle screen, heating in winter); and supporting infra along all roads, but starting with major roads, for pedestrians and cyclists.

 

[APTA-2048]

Do we have any idea whether it’ll be long term leases or that DRT will be buying used buses?

Bit of an update. TTC buses are back with DRT for a little while longer. Long term leased buses coming soon. Six this month and nine later this year. These buses will be second hand buses from dealers/refurbishers.

 

[tmustudent9]

Bit of an update. TTC buses are back with DRT for a little while longer. Long term leased buses coming soon. Six this month and nine later this year. These buses will be second hand buses from dealers/refurbishers.

Do you know if the leased buses will be painted in DRT livery and have destination signs & next-stop announcements?

 

[Haydenpoon]

YRT likely burns up some hours of service per capita covering a larger area w/scheduled services, and somewhat greater route density, particularly N-S routes in the east end.

There aren't many N-S route routes in the east end of the York Region (Markham). They are roughly spaced every 2 km following the grid. On some routes, like the 8 Kennedy and 24 Woodbine, the last bus is before 10 p.m. on Weekdays and 9 p.m. on Weekends, which is simply a disappointment when compared to DRT.

 

[APTA-2048]

Do you know if the leased buses will be painted in DRT livery and have destination signs & next-stop announcements?

I can try to find out. Given the long-term nature I’d say it’s a good bet programmed signs and Presto readers will be used. Next-stop announcements would probably be used too, but I’d have to check with my mechanic friend about that. Hard to say if they’ll get DRT stripes. Last time they leased buses for a while, they were just all white with DRT logos.

About service: the 920 absolutely has to run more than every 30 mins. I took it twice this week at the start of rush hour and it was crush loaded halfway out of Scarborough. I think it’s scheduled to run every 15-20 minutes, but it’s so inconsistent you end up waiting for 30 minutes or more.

 

[Northern Light]

There aren't many N-S route routes in the east end of the York Region (Markham). They are roughly spaced every 2 km following the grid. On some routes, like the 8 Kennedy and 24 Woodbine, the last bus is before 10 p.m. on Weekdays and 9 p.m. on Weekends, which is simply a disappointment when compared to DRT.

Yeah, I think I had Kennedy and Birchmount in my head which are fairly close together, but they're the exception.

Just glancing at the map now, I'm surprised there isn't a steady route on Roddick (Pharmacy)