News   Dec 06, 2023
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Downtown Rapid Transit Expansion Study

Optimal solution should be...

  • Total voters
Streetcar improvements. Very cheap, and would improve image of TTC. For example, on routes with high frequency, the focus should be keeping an even spacing, as opposed to keeping vehicles on time.

Couldn't agree more. One thing I hate about travelling by streetcar is having to wait at the stop a very long time only to have literally 4 or 5 streetcars arrive at the same time. Also, as with subways, I really doubt anybody pays attention to streetcar scheduling.
A couple of very good options in that report -- Personally I like the modified DRL with the GO Satellite stations providing an easy interchange.
Holy shit. I thought DRL and GO improvements were off the radar. Looks like something big is in the works.

And with Ford out, this city can get back to focusing on actual transit improvements. Not Sheppard "first priority" BS.
I am personally a fan of putting lakeshore service underground, but it would be good to make a provision to connect the Georgetown line to the union tunnel at a later date and include roughed-in space for platform expansion. I also hope that they seriously consider constructing any new station with high-floor platforms with level boarding. I eventually see a situation where VIA/Lakeshore trains are routed to Lower Union while the more local lines are kept above ground.

I also like the provision that although options 1-3 were not carried forward as part of releiving Union, that the options can be pursued independently, for
other reasons such as ridership growth. Personally, I think that the addition of a few GO stations downtown is warranted.
The GO Tunnel via Lakeshore is my favourite option, they should work with the city by adding two extra lines for the DRL.
Clearly 6B is the preferred option, which adds nothing to the system other than spreading Union Station a bit wider.
Option 4A – Downtown Rapid Transit (DRT)
Underground Downtown Rapid Transit (DRT) Line proposed to replace King and/or Queen streetcars.
Integrated with GO Rail services at key stations.

Sorry, do not replace the streetcars. Instead, a DRT should be an express line from Eglinton Avenue West AND Eglinton Avenue East. The streetcars should remain to provide local service, which would be definitely better than buses for the public transit user.
Sorry, do not replace the streetcars. Instead, a DRT should be an express line from Eglinton Avenue West AND Eglinton Avenue East. The streetcars should remain to provide local service, which would be definitely better than buses for the public transit user.

GO trains are express. Subway metro is best suited for high volume local service. Any new HRT subway downtown must have similar stop spacing to the Yonge or Bloor sections in the core.
5A-2 is one of the most interesting, it would turn GO into a commuter/express/subway rail provider. Toronto would essentially have 2 subway systems.
Sorry, do not replace the streetcars....The streetcars should remain to provide local service, which would be definitely better than buses for the public transit user.

I think they meant replacing the streetcars as a modal choice for transit users entering the core, not an outright replacement. IMO the streetcars wouldn't need to be replaced simply for the fact that they provide high volume, ultra-local service.

I also think the city would see quite an uproar if the Queen streetcar were proposed for removal.
I agree with Borgo, I like 5A-2 the best, if it was accompanied with a DRL subway on King st. that intersects and connects/ transfer point with the GO tunnel further east/ west of the downtown core so that those ppl who aren't going directly to queen/ osgoode can still connect to the subway further out without having to take the bloor or yonge subway lines.

I actually dislike the two preferred options the most.
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I'm a big fan of 6A. I'm a little biased, living right by Dundas West, but I think there are some good reasons it should be seriously considered. Although at least in 6B the DRL could be extended westward.

Queen/Roncesvalles station could be a major node. The 501 Queen could terminate there, and a new upgraded higher-speed streetcar could operate reliably west of there (507?). From Humber loop, a ROW would just have to be created west on Lakeshore, and maybe even a branch on the Queensway. This would provide very attractive service to downtown with only one transfer. The Roncesvalles streetcar yard could be transformed into a major junction station, seeing as the TTC already owns the land, and the yard has to be retrofitted anyway for the new streetcars, so why not just find another more suitable property for the new LRVs.

You could still have the Dundas West/Bloor, Queen/Dufferin and/or Exibition stations, and either make them terminals, or charge a high premium during rush hour to continue on to Union station. This would entice many passengers to transfer to the DRL (which would be much more convenient), and bring in more cash for the system. As for platform space at Union, going to EMUs could solve much of the problem I'd imagine, as well as better scheduling service. I don't have too much knowledge on this, but I'm sure there are stations in major European cities that see more passenger throughput on less trackage.

I don't think the DRL necessarily needs to be under Queen, although I don't have a huge preference on this. I just hope it wouldn't mean removing a streetcar line. The streetcar lines would be just as important if not more used to meet local demands generated by the DRL.
There were like 5 replies as I wrote my post, glad to see everyone else sees the need for the streetcar service...

Like WK Lis, I agree that the DRL should meet up with with the Eglinton crosstown on both ends, and have a future extensions in mind for Pearson Airport in the west, and Don Mills station in the north-east, as final terminals. This would drastically change and improve commuting in Toronto, and take a huge load off all other subway lines and provide redundancy during delays.

Stop spacing should not be as close together as downtown Bloor and Yonge/University lines, as it's not really following a street and/or replacing local service like those other lines did. It needs stop spacing that makes it the fastest and most attractive service hitting the major nodes and densest parts along its route. I'd say at 1-2km spacing would be ideal.
It would be interesting to see them do a Georgetown-Richmond Hill Express line coupled with a Queen Streetcar local line underneath Queen Street. That way you get the diversion away from Union, AND increased capacity and reliability along Queen St.

I also wonder why they didn't contemplate a new station underneath the Wellington and Bay area for the Lakeshore line. If you're digging a tunnel anyway, why make the new station further away from the core?

At the Hauptbahnhof in Berlin, they have inter-regional trains as well as E-W S-Bahn trains on the upper level, and they have N-S S-Bahn trains on the lower level, with the U-Bahn on a separate lower level platform.

Start the Lakeshore tunnel at Exhibition, run it under Front and then Wellington, have the station at Wellington and Bay, and then have it meet up again around the West Donlands.

I have to say though, some pretty interesting options, I'm impressed with the creativity.