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"Downtown Core Line" - Possible Alignments?
- Thread starter Whoaccio
- Start date
Another advantage of BRT. You can have semi-exclusive bus lanes. With LRT it's its own separate ROW within the road ROW, that's it. I have yet to see a carpool lane be stop and go traffic, so using the BRT lane as a bus lane as well as a carpool lane still provides that extra speed for the buses, while still maintaining road capacity, and providing a carpool lane as well (which Metrolinx seems to be very fond of, especially on 400 series highways).
rbt
Senior Member
We have done very little lane removal for transit. Even St. Clair boosted through traffic capacity (at the sacrifice of sidewalk). None of Transit City was planned to remove vehicle capacity where it is needed.
I have stong doubts that money can be saved by converting automobile lanes into dedicated tranist ROWs simply because the public will not stand for it.
Look at the kerfuffle for converting DVP shoulder into a GO Bus ROW. This isn't even removing a lane or eliminating it's use as a shoulder.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
I don't think it's a good idea to take away from drivers, the idea is to provide additional options not take them away in place of another.
Jupiter
New Member
Google Map of my DRL Proposal
This is the routing I've been using for my masters project. It'll be online in a few weeks. The whole thing costs around $12.9 billion with stage one, Spadina to Eglinton, costing slightly under $6 billion including a new rail yard.
This is the routing I've been using for my masters project. It'll be online in a few weeks. The whole thing costs around $12.9 billion with stage one, Spadina to Eglinton, costing slightly under $6 billion including a new rail yard.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I'm still unconvinced as to the benefits of putting the western leg of the DRL north of Bloor. By the time that that gets built (I'll guess 20 years) the Georgetown should have near-regional service and be electrified. The only really necessary stops on the DRL would be Bloor, the Junction, and Black Creek. No other area really screams a need for subway service, and all day georgetown service would just be serious overkill. And if you're going to be double tracking to allow for all day Georgetown service, as well as a someday-needed HSR and a two subway tracks, the route could very well run out of space. Georgetown service will be more than enough for that part.
Where did I ever say I was in favour of taking away car lanes for transit? Don Mills ALREADY HAS carpool/buses only lanes. That's why I costed making it a full BRT at $105 million, because only minor upgrades need to be made in order to get it to that point. The lanes can stay as carpool/buses only lanes, and still be BRT.
It's needed for future interlining with Eglinton West. A 1 seat ride via subway to Pearson from downtown can be a huge asset. That would also allow the line to split at Martin Grove, with Eglinton continuing along Eglinton into Mississauga, and the DRL using the old Eglinton ROW to the airport. The most likely routing of a subway into Mississauga and to Sq1 is via Eglinton, and the Mississauga Transitway. Upgrading an existing transit corridor would also give more accurate ridership predictions, because higher order transit already exists along that corridor. It also would connect nicely to the Jane BRT/LRT/whatever ends up on that corridor. Same as a Don Mills BRT would connect to the DRL in the east at the Science Centre.
Having said that, I see that last section of the DRL being at least 20 years out from being funded, let alone built.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ But that 1 seat ride could just come from Blue22 or a rerouted Georgetown line, Blue 22 especially. I would much prefer to see RT going into Mississauga as some type of extension of the FHC, as per the GO ALRT proposal of the 80's. Either way though, it wouldn't nearly require a DRL to interline it. You could instead put more trains on the line and split it up/join together at a big Eglinton-427 hub (for interchanges, not as a station.) And if you really, really need to get a 1 seat subway ride (much worse compared to Regional Rail that Go could provide, if you ask me,) then just interline Eglinton with the US at Eglinton West station.
I don't think Blue 22 and the DRL to the airport would be serving the same market though. Blue 22 is a premium service. The DRL is for average folk, and for commuters. People in northern Mississauga would also be likely to commute to it, as Richmond Hillians do to Finch station. I can't really see Blue 22 having the same kind of commuter draw.
But I do see your point, I'm just going off 1 of the 10 goals of the Big Move (connecting Pearson to the rest of the region).
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
Though, if someone doesn't want to pay the premium for Blue22, a single transfer isn't that bad, and if it was it could be mitigated much less expensively by interlining with the US at Eglinton west. And assuming the very worst luck with a 10 minute Georgetown Go service (miss the train as it leaves the station,) Go would still be faster than an interlined DRL to get downtown, unless you add express portions, which balloons the cost of a project that may not be needed anyways. People in Mississauga would be far, far better off using Go to get downtown, or almost anywhere in Toronto. And with Eglinton and Georgetown, they still have that RT link.
But that section would be 20+ years anyways. I think pretty much everyone can agree on a Dundas West-Eglinton loop.
But that section would be 20+ years anyways. I think pretty much everyone can agree on a Dundas West-Eglinton loop.
nfitz
Superstar
I take Don Mills road every day. Using an HOV lane isn't BRT. The buses are blocked by cars turning ... which they have to do by entering and crossing the bus lane. You also get huge bunching problems.
If this is Save our Sheppard's idea of BRT then I have overestimated you guys!
What I envision for Don Mills is something like what is on the Ottawa Transitway between Baseline station and Hunt Club, along Woodroffe Ave. I think that would be all that Don Mills north of Eglinton will need for the foreseeable future.
And the cars turning problem can be solved by adding in a separate right turning lane to the right of the BRT lane. It's only a problem now because the HOV lane is being used as the turning lane in many cases. And the bunching thing... Well that happens to streetcars too, it's not unique to buses (in fact, I would venture to say the bunching on streetcar lines is much much worse than on bus routes). Signal priority will hopefully fix that though.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Why would a BRT suffice for Don Mills north of Eglinton, considering a) densification of of the Lawrence, Sheppard node and b) the role of the line reliefing YUS by diverting feeder traffic and c) trip generators such as Seneca College and d) redevelopable, low density industrial lands . For all the talk about needing crosstown subway lines, a full DRL is of a far more certain utility.
AoD
AoD
leopetr
Active Member
Because the Yonge line is over capacity specifically south of Bloor. Relieving it north of Eglinton is not urgent.