Does Toronto look to North America or elsewhere for inspiration for transit/infrastructure?

[King of Kensington]

I notice a lot of people in Toronto who are into urbanism seem to want it to be more like European or Asian cities like Paris, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, and look to them as inspiration rather than to other North American cities (like Chicago, LA, DC etc.)? Is this practical? Is this a reflection of many Torontonians having familiarity with these Old World dense cities (perhaps because of our recent immigration history resulting in people who have experienced such cities firsthand prior to moving here)?

I notice in the US, when cities are discussed, mostly its between cities within the same country treating each other as comparisons/ideals/models (eg. Chicago trying to be like New York etc), but perhaps Toronto is more cosmopolitan in what standards it wants to look up to.

Toronto is getting pretty dense for a North American city and things like the new (or I suppose newest, since I feel calling something from the 2000s new isn't quite appropriate) Sheppard subway line have produced a relative abundance of transit-oriented growth, but I think at the end of the day of course we are far closer to other North American cities in terms of density and transit usage than we are to any city like London or Hong Kong, and it seems unlikely to change in the near future, barring some radical plans and acceptance/demand from people for the lifestyle.

What do you think? Despite Toronto's impressive growth in density, in terms of future outlook, do you think that trying to model ourselves after denser Old World cities is impractical?

I think Chicago and NYC are the cities Torontonians most often compare themselves too. Some say "we're really more like Melbourne" but I don't think Australian cities are on our radars.

I think Toronto is very much a North American city, and nobody would mistake it for a European one, but that being said it does have some elements that bring it closer to that model.

 

[wild goose chase]

Now one question I wonder is -- I have heard about the trend with millennials in both Canada and the US wanting to move back to the city from the suburbs, favoring public transit etc. -- will both Canada (cities like Toronto or Vancouver) go much further towards the denser, perhaps more European, model in the foreseeable future, or only slightly so, or will both the US and Canada have some cities that favor the dense model while other cities, suburbs or towns in both countries continue to grow in a more traditionally North American way.

 

[wild goose chase]

I think Chicago and NYC are the cities Torontonians most often compare themselves too. Some say "we're really more like Melbourne" but I don't think Australian cities are on our radars.

I think Toronto is very much a North American city, and nobody would mistake it for a European one, but that being said it does have some elements that bring it closer to that model.

I would generally say that many people just see Toronto as a North American city, perhaps mentioning that it can pass for US cities in the movies and whatnot, but occasionally the few odd people I have heard mention it, have claimed to see elements that are different from US cities which they often attribute to being more like European or Old World cities (ranging from our streetcars, to our slightly more mixed use downtown than many US cities, to even the relative comfort of people, including young women walking outside at late night without fear of crime though that's not particularly infrastructure-related). Some people have mentioned Toronto seems cleaner than many US cities but I'm not sure that European cities are necessarily cleaner than US or Canadian cities anyways. Some people I have heard have also claimed that Vancouver despite being in Canada even shows some similarities with Asia or Latin America (!) in urban design (perhaps by way of glassy, new towers). Some of these similarities with Europe or other continents claimed are a bit of a stretch I think but I generally think it would be cool if we followed the European model of more transit-friendly, denser cities in some ways.

 

[ssiguy2]

When I think of Toronto I think sort of a combo European/American form but in no way to I think of Asia. Asian cities are nothing but skyscraper with few homes and even less heritage as they tend to tear them down to build hyper density. Vancouver has a more Asian built form than Toronto.

 

[wild goose chase]

Asian cities are nothing but skyscraper with few homes and even less heritage as they tend to tear them down to build hyper density.

That's interesting since a lot of times Asians from Asia will often make it a point of pride in how old their civilization or culture is (eg. China or India having thousands of years of history, and contrast it with Canada being a new country with only hundreds) as will Europeans, but I guess just because you have lots of old buildings doesn't mean you'll value and preserve it in the quest of modernity.

 

[King of Kensington]

I would generally say that many people just see Toronto as a North American city, perhaps mentioning that it can pass for US cities in the movies and whatnot

Growing up, the opening credits to All in the Family (set in Queens NY) reminded me of Toronto. Queens is the closest "equivalent" to Toronto both in built form and demographics in the US.

Though I know it's also been used as a stand-in for Manhattan, Brooklyn, Chicago and Baltimore and I think Pittsburgh as well.

 

[Johnny Au]

Toronto was also used as a stand-in for Washington, DC for Pixels as well.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Let the world's 3rd oldest underground railway give Toronto an inspiration.

 

[TOareaFan]

^The first subway I ever road...still one of my favourites.....perfectly fitting the size of the city, and the simplicity of two circles going in opposite directions with other transit (mostly buses) radiating out from the stations gives it city wide coverage.

I must say, though, that some of those tiny platforms get a bit scary (eg. Ibrox or Cessnock after a match at Ibrox Park).

EDIT: the system is closed at the moment for some upgrading.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Let the world's 3rd oldest underground railway give Toronto an inspiration.

That metro system is perhaps the simplest and most bizzare metro system I know of. Just tiny trains running in a circle.

 

[drum118]

That metro system is perhaps the simplest and most bizzare metro system I know of. Just tiny trains running in a circle.

And its a lot noisey than the SRT when I rode it in 2012.

They are upgrading it, but needs to be expanded.

 

[TransitBart]

Let the world's 3rd oldest underground railway give Toronto an inspiration.

Lordy. That's one narrow platform! But the stations are clean.

What should we be inspired to do? Build a subway for midgets? (please don't be offended WKL - it's been a long day.)

Answering my own question, I vote for giving our stations a good scrub.

 

[Johnny Au]

Lordy. That's one narrow platform! But the stations are clean.

What should we be inspired to do? Build a subway for midgets? (please don't be offended WKL - it's been a long day.)

Answering my own question, I vote for giving our stations a good scrub.

Don't forget that during the 1960s, the Glasgow Subway was so filthy, the New York City subway seemed hygienic in comparison during the same era.

The narrow platforms can be a safety hazard.

 

[TransitBart]

Don't forget that during the 1960s, the Glasgow Subway was so filthy, the New York City subway seemed hygienic in comparison during the same era.

The narrow platforms can be a safety hazard.

1. I never saw nor heard someone remark upon this tiny, perfect subway before 30 minutes ago.
2. I can see my younger, drunker self toppling onto the tracks. Those platforms look insane.

 

[TOareaFan]

And its a lot noisey than the SRT when I rode it in 2012.

They are upgrading it, but needs to be expanded.

it is a bit noisy.....but it does not need expanding.....it does the job required of it as is.