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Dion's plane a bit of an oil burner

dowlingm

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So while the Tories and NDP have Air Canada A319s, the Libs have hired, at the last minute and not yet ready to fly, Air Inuit's sole jet - a 1979 Boeing 737-200Combi.

Based on numbers I found:
A319 3,100kg/block hour, 120 passengers (25.8kg/passenger/hour)
B732C 4,300kg/block hour, 112 passengers (38.4kg/passenger/hour)
http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/apm/256r003.pdf
 

afransen

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Perhaps if Harper had stuck to his promised election date, the Liberals could have arranged for a better plane! lol

I find it amusing that you're implying hypocrisy. Dion hasn't said we should prohibit fossil fuel use, just penalize those who use a lot.
 

kEiThZ

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Perhaps if Harper had stuck to his promised election date, the Liberals could have arranged for a better plane! lol

I find it amusing that you're implying hypocrisy. Dion hasn't said we should prohibit fossil fuel use, just penalize those who use a lot.

So we should be expecting that the Liberals will be buying a large amount of offsets anytime now.....
 

dowlingm

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Libs offset from carbonzero.

Only problem is you can't offset the noise and unburnt hydrocarbons/nitric oxides a low-bypass ratio turbojet produces. The advantage would be campaigning in remote parts of the North (rough strips, limited baggage handling equipment) which the Airbus couldn't - and that Karl-Heinz Schreiber almost certainly didn't get a commission on that plane.
 

Hydrogen

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So the Liberal party bought an offset. In other words, they bought an indulgence. Same thing.
 

PukeGreen

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You know how it is; if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger. I guess it's easier to pick on Dion's plane or analyze how many light bulbs are in Al Gore's house than to face up to the bigger problems.

I think it's a shame that a dipping economy has wiped the environment from the election agenda almost entirely. It seems Canadians only want to make changes if they are free and convenient. The only good thing is that high oil prices and a poor economy are probably more effective at reducing CO2 emissions than any carbon tax scheme you could dream up.
 

nfitz

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Don't see how this means much. Air Canada only had 2 planes available. NDP and Tories have had contracts with Air Canada for years. Liberals had their contract with Canadian, and went elsewhere when it went under - which has also gone under.

NDP and Tories got the 2 available planes, and Liberals had to scramble.

More importantly, is how many miles will each burn. Tories already flew to Quebec, and reversed direction back to Vancouver.

A better indication is things one has control over. Like taking a 4-car motorcade across the street from 24 Sussex Drive to 1 Sussex Drive. Which is literally right across the street.
 

CDL.TO

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A better indication is things one has control over. Like taking a 4-car motorcade across the street from 24 Sussex Drive to 1 Sussex Drive. Which is literally right across the street.

Yeah, what's the deal with that? I was thinking the same thing. Paul Martin simply walked.
 

dowlingm

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Liberals had their contract with Canadian, and went elsewhere when it went under
Canadian didn't go under - they were merged with AC. Contracts with Canadian would have transferred. I think the bigger issue on why they didn't maintain a slot would have been the impact of a deposit on Liberal cashflow. Dion better hope that an evacuation isn't required from a northern reserve or he might lose even this plane...
 

kEiThZ

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You know how it is; if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger. I guess it's easier to pick on Dion's plane or analyze how many light bulbs are in Al Gore's house than to face up to the bigger problems.

I think it's a shame that a dipping economy has wiped the environment from the election agenda almost entirely. It seems Canadians only want to make changes if they are free and convenient. The only good thing is that high oil prices and a poor economy are probably more effective at reducing CO2 emissions than any carbon tax scheme you could dream up.

Exactly. Nobody seems to be talking about what the optimum price is for energy, and the impact it would have on our economy. Tacking on 20 bucks a barrel may make sense when the oil price is 80 dollars. But does it still make sense when the price is 140. The recent price rise has taken more cars of the road in then Kyoto ever could. Perhaps, what should be considered is the setting of a minimum price threshold with a flexible tax beyond that. ie. Oil should cost 130 per barrel. If the market price is 125, the tax is 5 dollars. This allows businesses and consumers to plan for a specific price point by a specific date.
 

afransen

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I don't think anyone can tell you the optimum price of oil, keith. It depends on all kinds of rather subjective criteria.

I should also add that if, say, the optimal price of oil was $120, should the government have suspended the gasoline excise tax over the past six months?
 

kEiThZ

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I don't think anyone can tell you the optimum price of oil, keith. It depends on all kinds of rather subjective criteria.

I should also add that if, say, the optimal price of oil was $120, should the government have suspended the gasoline excise tax over the past six months?

I am proposing that we decide how expensive to make oil...sort of...by setting a minimum price....rather than simply setting the price point 17 dollars to the right of the global market. Interesting to see what will happen, if companies start drilling in areas like the arctic and the price begins to decline. Would we then have to raise the tax beyond 17 bucks. My musing would provide the predictability of knowing that oil will be 130 a barrel in 2009, 140 a barrel in 2010, etc. This is not so far fetched. Many third world countries subsidize fuel prices providing steady prices year round. Here we could set a steady price and control the inflation of this commodity artificially. Anyway, its just an idea I am throwing out.....

As for suspending the excise tax at 120....a better target would have been the GST on gasoline. It would have provided some relief from the rapid price rise of gasoline.
 

kEiThZ

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So while the Tories and NDP have Air Canada A319s, the Libs have hired, at the last minute and not yet ready to fly, Air Inuit's sole jet - a 1979 Boeing 737-200Combi.

Based on numbers I found:
A319 3,100kg/block hour, 120 passengers (25.8kg/passenger/hour)
B732C 4,300kg/block hour, 112 passengers (38.4kg/passenger/hour)
http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/apm/256r003.pdf

It's no biggie. Nobody will know their fuel burn without knowing how heavy or light they are traveling.

I'll be impressed when I see a party charter a Toronto built fuel efficient Q400 for its party bus. The range, speed, payload and rough field capability would make the Q400 an amazing campaign aircraft. Sadly, even the NDP doesn't feel any obligation to make a symbolic gesture for our unionized local aerospace workers.
 

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