Developers should not be allowed to call a windowless room a Bedroom!!

[avenirv]

what natural light do you get at night ?
isn't night something dark ?

 

[myfive]

For me a bedroom needs a closet and a door. The window isn't critical because some condos have the bedroom (s) at the back of the unit away from the windows. Also, should be some reasonable size...the 7 meter minimum mentioned earlier sounds about right but that would be on the small size.

 

[UD2]

I was under the impression, under the rental apartment code, that bedrooms should have access to natural light.

 

[Eug]

Frankly, and speaking personally, a room without a window is not a bedroom but a den.

So, is a den with a window a bedroom?

Cuz I've seen some small rooms in condos with windows called dens. In fact, for my basement that's what the city engineer who approved the drawings labelled one room. My drawings had two basement bedrooms (unlabelled), but the city engineer labelled one a study and one a den. I believe it would have been a different approval process had they been labelled bedrooms so they gave me the easy way out I guess. Both rooms have giant windows, and the floor is only a couple of feet below grade, almost like a walkout/daylight basement. (My house is on a slope, and the basement bedrooms are at the bottom of the slope, so their east-facing windows get tons of sunlight through the windows in the morning.)

This is an example from Google of such a "daylight basement".

Personally I think this whole "den" terminology is very confusing. Does it actually have any defined meaning?

 

[myfive]

I was under the impression, under the rental apartment code, that bedrooms should have access to natural light.

They all would. Condos are pretty small in general, so even if a bedroom is towards the back, without a window, a ton of natural light comes in anyways with all th floor to ceiling windows that would be in the kitchen/living area. My current den is at the back of my unit away from the windows and in fact tucked around a corner, and it is 'bright as day' in there during the afternoon. It does get darker in there quicker though at the end of the day. I do have a West view as well, so all afternoon the light is pouring in the whole unit. I think if you had an East view, with a bedroom tucked at the back, it would be a bit darker.

 

[BrianPersaud]

[The correct answer]

For an apartment building in Ontario that conforms to a residential building exceeding 600 sq.m. in building area or exceeding three stories in height you have to first look to a different Part of the Code (other than Part 9). See Parts 3, 5 and 6 of Div. B.

Specifically see. Article 3.7.2.1. Window Area: (1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3) or otherwise permitted, every room used for sleeping in any building, and every principal room such as living room, dining room or combination of them in dwelling units shall be provided with windows having areas conforming to Part 9, except that Article 9.7.1.3 does not apply.

Therefore Article 9.7.1.3 does not apply which states that "except where a door on the same floor level as the bedroom provides direct access to the exterior, every floor level containing a bedroom in a suite shall be provided with at least 1 outside window that..." Looking only this sentence you would think that if there is a balcony door in an apartment building dwelling (that conforms to Parts 3, 5 and 6 of Div B.) then a bedroom does not legally need a window.

This is not so if your building exceeds 600 sq.m. in building area or exceeding three stories in height

see 9.7.1.2 for Minimum Window Areas and then Table 9.7.1.2. For a bedroom the minimum glass area in 5% of area served.

I would think that if a developer is representing an illegal bedroom as a bedroom you might have some legal recourse if you bought the unit and did not know better at the time. Marketing tactic - sure - but nonetheless it appears to at least be deceiving and perhaps fraudulent. The product is improperly labelled. The developer should know better.

One caveat: the "otherwise permitted" language in Article 3.7.2.1 may suggest that each room does not need a window since it could be "otherwise permitted" for some reason. To the best of my knowledge there is no place where this is otherwise permitted except in the case of maybe a glass door (but I can't find any Article to support that statement). Transparent doors and panels are defined in the code and nowhere that I can see is this equated with a window. Contact a building code expert in your city to clarify.

There are requirements for a place to be called a room. Not just marketing fluff

Ontario Building Code (OBC) States

Article 3.7.2.1. Window Area: (1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) and (3) or otherwise permitted, every room used for sleeping in any building, and every principal room such as living room, dining room or combination of them in dwelling units SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH WINDOWS having areas conforming to Part 9

Streetcar, for examples does not have windows in their 1 bedroom suites in 8 Gladstone.

How do Developers get over this? I cover this in my book that will be in book stores in the fall

National Building Code of Canada and the OBC allow for "Alternative Solutions" where a developer can build something where it's performance complies with the code.

Streetcar got around this by putting frosted glass sliding doors in the room that brought in natural light

So because it does meet the minimum performance it can be called a room in marketing and in listings on the MLS