Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[W. K. Lis]

Pushing for transit priority lanes is one thing. Whether you are actually successful is an entirely different thing. Talk is cheap.

Should be REAL transit priority. Not where the 4-way hazard flashers allow anyone to stop to get their important cup of "grande Carmel macchiato in a venti cup, 1/3 whole milk, 1/3 almond milk, 1/3 soy milk, double the amount of vanilla syrup, carmel wall in the cup, no carmel drizzle on top, upsidown, tall cup ice, whipped cream, rounded lid, 1 shot extra espresso (decaf), cinnamon sprinkled on top"... to go.

 

[NIV]

I'm puzzled why it takes over two years to do an emergency build of a busway along the corridor. I bet you, that if push came to shove, they could start now, and have it running early next year. Screw the years of design and permitting - just use drainage ditches, and make sure there's flow. Use a typical cross-section. The junction at Ellesmere may be the biggest challenge, but no reason they can't just use the existing roads. Promise to rip it up, or build it properly, when the subway opens. With all the crazy seat-of-the-pants stuff the Ford government does, I'd think there'd be a way to expedite this.

I agree, we need to build this faster and cheaper. The only reason I can see why it would take two years is because they are designing a busway similar in design to York University. Concrete wall barriers are not needed. They require a drainage plan and removing existing concrete as well as both more time to build and more money. Hopefully this busway is converted into bike lanes and pathways once subway extension is finished. Concrete barriers are not appealing or neighbourhood friendly.

The cheapest fastest solution is to move out the fencing in the corridor where needed, especially between Lawrence and Ellesmere. Pave new entrance and exits at grade for Ellesmere, Lawrence and Kennedy station so the busses can load and unload in front of these stations using existing bays. People can still use the stations. Remove existing rails and mechanical, Board up the RT entrances at both ends of the stations. Widen and pave it over and let’s get going. City Hall needs to be talking about this now! Don’t even wait the three weeks for the TTC to officially announce its closure. Scarborough needs help now!!

 

[W. K. Lis]

Bus lanes need to be concrete. Ruttings appear on asphalt from heavy trucks and buses.

From link.

 

[littlewill1166]

Is there something wrong with the existing on-street shuttle bus that's currently operating?

I thought Midland would be a lot more congested, but it hasn't been. The shuttle buses operate much more frequently than the SRT. The walk to transfer between busses is shorter. Most of the shuttles I've been on have been half-empty or less (one time I even had the entire bus to myself). Overall, most of my trip times have been shorter thanks to the higher frequency and shorter walk between transfers.

Has anyone's experience with the current SRT shuttle actually been bad enough to justify the emergency construction of a busway on the SRT corridor? I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Steve X]

Does it take 2 years to pour 4km of concrete? I’m not sure if the station platform/grading is the issue. Of course they could just avoid the SRT stations by having the roads curve into the current road or busway at Lawrence East, it shouldn’t be that difficult to do.

 

[MrGoose]

Should be REAL transit priority. Not where the 4-way hazard flashers allow anyone to stop to get their important cup of "grande Carmel macchiato in a venti cup, 1/3 whole milk, 1/3 almond milk, 1/3 soy milk, double the amount of vanilla syrup, carmel wall in the cup, no carmel drizzle on top, upsidown, tall cup ice, whipped cream, rounded lid, 1 shot extra espresso (decaf), cinnamon sprinkled on top"... to go.

Just put cowcatchers up front, and cars who block the bus path get pushed out the way.

Damage is entirely your fault for being illegally parked.

 

[H4F33Z]

Is there something wrong with the existing on-street shuttle bus that's currently operating?

I thought Midland would be a lot more congested, but it hasn't been. The shuttle buses operate much more frequently than the SRT. The walk to transfer between busses is shorter. Most of the shuttles I've been on have been half-empty or less (one time I even had the entire bus to myself). Overall, most of my trip times have been shorter thanks to the higher frequency and shorter walk between transfers.

Has anyone's experience with the current SRT shuttle actually been bad enough to justify the emergency construction of a busway on the SRT corridor? I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

It might be a problem in the future. The plan is to extend many bus routes from their existing terminus at SC to Kennedy so riders can have a one-seat ride. There's not many buses now because its just Line 3 shuttles + local buses, but when they extend many bus routes, that's where it may become a problem

Also it's summer, school starting will significantly increase the number of riders on these various routes, especially in Scarborough. It's important to see how bus lanes fare for this corridor, and to see if further action is needed, like a busway.

 

[Voltz]

I'm puzzled why it takes over two years to do an emergency build of a busway along the corridor. I bet you, that if push came to shove, they could start now, and have it running early next year. Screw the years of design and permitting - just use drainage ditches, and make sure there's flow. Use a typical cross-section. The junction at Ellesmere may be the biggest challenge, but no reason they can't just use the existing roads. Promise to rip it up, or build it properly, when the subway opens. With all the crazy seat-of-the-pants stuff the Ford government does, I'd think there'd be a way to expedite this.

At the very least the section south of Lawrence should be rushed, there is nothing in the way, and it will get buses off of Eglinton, where they will be disrupted by subway construction.

 

[littlewill1166]

It might be a problem in the future. The plan is to extend many bus routes from their existing terminus at SC to Kennedy so riders can have a one-seat ride. There's not many buses now because its just Line 3 shuttles + local buses, but when they extend many bus routes, that's where it may become a problem
View attachment 495874
Also it's summer, school starting will significantly increase the number of riders on these various routes, especially in Scarborough. It's important to see how bus lanes fare for this corridor, and to see if further action is needed, like a busway.

Maybe... But, it will be at least early next year before construction on the SRT busway can begin assuming they try to keep it running until November. That'll be enough time to determine whether a busway is warranted. As of this week, the TTC cut at least 4 buses from the Line 3 shuttle according to Transsee https://www.transsee.ca/fleetfind?a=ttc&shuttle=1.

At the very least the section south of Lawrence should be rushed, there is nothing in the way, and it will get buses off of Eglinton, where they will be disrupted by subway construction.

The subway construction is happening east of Midland. It started last year already. According to this map from Metrolinx, construction won't be happening west of Midland (where the current line 3 shuttle is operating).

Scarborough Subway Extension - Community Documents

Community Documents of Scarborough Subway Extension

www.metrolinx.com

According to https://www.openrailwaymap.org/, the tail tracks at Kennedy run south of Eglinton. I suspect they're going to excavate the tail track extension underground instead of levelling a couple of bindings to do it cut and cover...

I'm not necessarily saying no to an SRT busway. But as of right now, it looks like the demand for buses on the SRT corridor is less than what the TTC originally supplied in terms of capacity. People may have switched to alternate routes (GO, other TTC bus routes, etc). The TTC has responded by running fewer shuttles. Therefore I'm skeptical whether an SRT busway conversion is as necessary as originally thought. As of right now, I don't see how the situation on the ground warrants a busway conversion. Also, buses to Lawrence on an SRT busway would have to make several turns to get on and off of it (likely eating up the time savings from not being behind other traffic).

 

[Voltz]

As of right now, I don't see how the situation on the ground warrants a busway conversion. Also, buses to Lawrence on an SRT busway would have to make several turns to get on and off of it (likely eating up the time savings from not being behind other traffic).

If the demand is that much less over time then the busway might have less of a need, if it sustains low ridership over the rest of the year then it can be revisited. But if it is built to Lawrence initially, I don't think there would be extra bus movements that would cancel out the time savings, at quick glance I'd say it would effectively moving the same bus turns from Eglinton to Lawrence.

 

[CapitalSeven]

And if the demand doesn't even warrant a bus lane, we're building a subway because.....

 

[littlewill1166]

If the demand is that much less over time then the busway might have less of a need, if it sustains low ridership over the rest of the year then it can be revisited. But if it is built to Lawrence initially, I don't think there would be extra bus movements that would cancel out the time savings, at quick glance I'd say it would effectively moving the same bus turns from Eglinton to Lawrence.

The part of me who plays Cities Skylines is worried that this is going to be a massive pinch point for busses getting off the busway at Lawrence (it's only wide enough for one bus at the moment).

Scarborough RT Express Bus Replacement Plan

After extensive study and public consultation, TTC staff will present a plan for bus replacement of the Scarborough RT to their Board at its April 14, 2022 meeting. Although it is a long report, mu…

stevemunro.ca

If they're going to build it, they might as well build the entire thing, they're going to have to pave about 80 metres of asphalt either way.

 

[mossynukes]

And if the demand doesn't even warrant a bus lane, we're building a subway because.....

... are you joking?

 

[Allandale25]

 

[Richard White]

View attachment 497213

I suspect Steve may be right on the money here.

Quite honestly, as things drag on the more I feel like they will just keep it closed. No sense in reopening it for a month or so.