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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

If Tory does support this idiotic proposal, I'll be counting down the days until we can throw him out of office. This has to be one of the dumbest proposals I've seen recently - up there with the Finch subway line.
 
CapitalSeven said:
Yikes, did anyone notice this article in the Star suggesting Tory's office is pushing for a Siberian (far-east) alignment even if it costs an extra billion http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/05/26/mayor-john-tory-eyes-alternative-more-expensive-routes-for-scarborough-subway.html.? I swear, there's no over-priced option he won't pimp for.
Click to expand...

I sincerely hope that he's setting this whole thing up just so that he can roll it into SmartTrack by building it as a spur off the Stouffville corridor.

Step 1: Support the Scarborough Subway
Step 2: Illustrate that SmartTrack and the Scarborough Subway (if built under McCowan) would cannibalize each other's ridership
Step 3: Pretend to support a much more expensive option that requires a more easterly route in order to avoid this cannibalization
Step 4: Have staff come back and say that a more easterly alignment would be too expensive and the ridership would be too low
Step 5: Propose a SmartTrack spur as a cost saving measure, while still claiming that Scarborough is getting a subway

If his support for this more easterly alignment is legitimate though, and not part of some larger scheme, then he definitely went down several pegs in my book.
 
CapitalSeven said:
Yikes, did anyone notice this article in the Star suggesting Tory's office is pushing for a Siberian (far-east) alignment even if it costs an extra billion http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/05/26/mayor-john-tory-eyes-alternative-more-expensive-routes-for-scarborough-subway.html.? I swear, there's no over-priced option he won't pimp for.
Click to expand...

So now this subway is expected to cost $4.5B.

If we would have gone with the Ford-McGuinty compromise, the cost would have been $3.5B. Interestingly, Metrolinx concluded that this wsa the best benefit/cost solution. Shortly thereafter, Michael Schabas suggested elevating the Scarborough portion for a cost of about $2.5B.

Thus, the decision to abandon the Ford-McGuinty compromise is now going to cost us $2B.
 
This is map of interest to mayor's staff. Markham Rd. option at far right, council-approved McCowan option at centre
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/jpags/status/603373877545271296

gqzYaxP.jpg
 

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gweed123 said:
Step 5: Propose a SmartTrack spur as a cost saving measure, while still claiming that Scarborough is getting a subway
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Have you thought about how frequent the STC Branch and the Markham Branch need to be. I would guess at worst 10 minute frequency (6 trains per hour) on each, maybe 6 minutes (10 trains) would be better. (Maybe 12 minute SmartTrack overlapped with 12 minute GO RER would work.)

I see no problem with building the Ellesmere to STC, Centennial and Malvern portion. The Ellesmere tunnel would have to be rebuilt. Most assume that the elevated track needs to be replaced, maybe the piers as well. Maybe a cost of about $250M would be needed for the 8km to Malvern. That is $2B.

From Ellesmere to Kennedy, there would be 3 stations, plus 3 minute frequency trains (each way). This can probably still work.
From Kennedy to St. Clair, there are no stations so there is no problem as long as that portion can be double tracked (stacked?)
So all that needs to be worked out is how to handle the LSE corridor when some LSE RER trains (and diesel ones) are added to the mix.

Gweed, you are a smart guy - have you put any effort into solving this problem?
 
It really is insane. The impetus for this whole fool's errand was to save Scarberians 5 minutes or so in transfer time. Now in order to do this, they would spend about 3 billion dollars and route the whole mess half a mile east, which would increase travel time from STC by about, oh, 6 minutes. Does anyone see a logical problem there? Just a tiny one?

At this point it would make much more sense to revert to upgrading to the latest version of the current technology, building the quick loop transfer at Kennedy, and spending the leftover cash on some other project. (Except the cash isn't really left over, since it's non-existent.)
 
CapitalSeven said:
It really is insane. The impetus for this whole fool's errand was to save Scarberians 5 minutes or so in transfer time. Now in order to do this, they would spend about 3 billion dollars and route the whole mess half a mile east, which would increase travel time from STC by about, oh, 6 minutes. Does anyone see a logical problem there? Just a tiny one?

At this point it would make much more sense to revert to upgrading to the latest version of the current technology, building the quick loop transfer at Kennedy, and spending the leftover cash on some other project. (Except the cash isn't really left over, since it's non-existent.)
Click to expand...

We don't care about improving travel times in Scarborough; we just want them to have a subway :)
 
TheTigerMaster said:
I'd like to think this is Tory's ploy to cancel the SSE, but given his history I wouldn't be at all surprised if this proposal is genuine.
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I couldn't agree more with this statement. I genuinely cant tell if he honestly thinks he is trying really hard to build it with this alignment, or if he is trying to non-nonchalantly and very quietly kill it off. After his little Catholic school controversy I can never tell if he is being serious, or joking around.
 
I have to agree with TigerMaster, this is how you would go about canceling a transit line you inherited but have no issue in pursuing, especially when it is cannibalizing the other transit line you are championing. I sincerely hope that is his end-game here.
 
WislaHD said:
I have to agree with TigerMaster, this is how you would go about canceling a transit line you inherited but have no issue in pursuing, especially when it is cannibalizing the other transit line you are championing. I sincerely hope that is his end-game here.
Click to expand...

This could be. His interview on the Agenda the other day told me one thing, that he did not sound in favour of the Scarborough Subway, but he felt his hands were tied because of previous commitments.
 
WislaHD said:
I have to agree with TigerMaster, this is how you would go about canceling a transit line you inherited but have no issue in pursuing, especially when it is cannibalizing the other transit line you are championing. I sincerely hope that is his end-game here.
Click to expand...

Me too. If John Tory and his people can frustrate progress on the Scarborough extension long enough to get real commitments to SmartTrack, I doubt council would vote another billion dollars (or more) for a more easterly subway project. I'm not sure John has that much guile, but he must have a good Machiavellian or two in his crew.
 
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