Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

At least you admit the PC's have lied about subways before. We have no reason to believe they won't do it again.

I know some people here are hoping the Harris years come back for the SSE file but its not even close to that climate. Quite opposite in many aspects. I dont believe they will build anything new but whatever subway is on the books or in design will be pretty safe to keep moving as long as their is a supportive Mayor in the City.

Ill admit that every Party and Politician has lied, but that doesn't change the current Political climate were in and severe hack and slash will never fly.

Brown need GO (905) to work out for him more than he need Scarborough.

AoD

That doesn't matter in terms of the SSE. Scarborough is simple for the PC's and they don't need to focus or add additional funding. Brown just has to leave Scarborough funding as is and either it a one stop or a 3 stop that will be dictated by the Mayor anyway. He will just support subways as he has already done and move on to other areas like the 905. If anything goes wrong he can just blame Wynne as he is already so this is a very easy political decision. They have zero intention in ripping it up, even less interest in LRT, as the only ones that want to see that at this point is a select few on Toronto Council.

If Ford gets in the subway will be more stops, smarttrack cancelled and the Province will pay the same whether Liberal or Conservative

 

[sixrings]

Ford is Scarboroughs savior.

 

[OneCity]

Ford is Scarboroughs savior.

Unfortunate indeed. But with Tory losing control right on the Scarborough file with no Eglinton East funded and Smarttrack cutting into the subway right now and the complete lack of respect for Scarborough majority voters from the vocal opposition a strong Ford vote is certialy not out of the question.

Im still have a bit of hope for Tory but wouldn't be shocked

 

[sixrings]

Tory doesn't understand scarborough since he lives downtown in a fancy dancy condo and can walk to work. Ford though is a Tim hortons blue collar guy who understands LRTS slow down traffic. Simple man with simple answers to a simple problem.

 

[nfitz]

Tory doesn't understand scarborough since he lives downtown in a fancy dancy condo and can walk to work. Ford though is a Tim hortons blue collar guy who understands LRTS slow down traffic. Simple man with simple answers to a simple problem.

Ford was so simple, he claimed that converting the SRT to LRT would slow down car traffic.

 

[crs1026]

There is enough of a voter block in Scarborough to swing the results for a mayor. I'm sure that's what GDB sees as the prize. He doesn't have to sing the old Ford Nation song, either. He just needs to bring Scarborough a subway. Hey, it worked for Lastman, when North York was a similar swing block.

The fear of some other candidate (ie GDB) mobilising this block is the only reason Tory is clinging to the One stop despite its bad economics, imho.

Someone I know who has an insightful grasp of Scarborough politics has been telling me, "whoever brings higher order transit to Malvern first will win". It's not that Malvern is the biggest voter block, but it's the acid test of whether someone can demonstrate their oneness with all of Scarborough's "little people". It just happens that any line to Malvern has to cross all of Scarborough, so just about any route will touch on many voters' worlds. And it doesn't have to be subway either. "If you are looking out for Malvern, you are looking out for all of us", says my friend.

I hope he is right, because it presents the opportunity for someone to propose an alternative to the One-stop and potentially capture this block away from Tory and GDB. Bringing transit to Malvern is potentially cheaper than bringing it to STC.

- Paul

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

And the Liberals haven't?

They do, I'm just saying the PCs might not do what they say.

Brown need GO (905) to work out for him more than he need Scarborough.

AoD

Agreed.

You're right, I've changed Sheppard to "green". They will do "something" but I highly doubt they finish the entire line as envisioned. Phases are most likely to happen with an extension to Victoria Park being the no brainer as an LRT tunnel was also to be built.

Yeah...they will have to live with Presto but RER might be getting massively downgraded. I could see Lakeshore East & West stay RER, same for Kitchener but not confident for the rest of the network but it would be a mistake to go back on that too

I totally see them dumping the UPX on the TTC

Social programs and green programs are definitely getting the axe here...

UPX is one of the catalyst for all of this. It's the basis for smarttrack, the rather convenient excuse for the slow service increase on the Brampton and Barrie lines, and they couldn't even get the price point right. It does nothing Eglinton West won't do at a lower cost either. Honestly, for me RER is just as important as the subways given the terrible traffic. I want to see a commitment to all day service on all the GO lines from Brown, and a extension to Hamilton too.

I know some people here are hoping the Harris years come back for the SSE file but its not even close to that climate. Quite opposite in many aspects. I dont believe they will build anything new but whatever subway is on the books or in design will be pretty safe to keep moving as long as their is a supportive Mayor in the City.

Ill admit that every Party and Politician has lied, but that doesn't change the current Political climate were in and severe hack and slash will never fly.




That doesn't matter in terms of the SSE. Scarborough is simple for the PC's and they don't need to focus or add additional funding. Brown just has to leave Scarborough funding as is and either it a one stop or a 3 stop that will be dictated by the Mayor anyway. He will just support subways as he has already done and move on to other areas like the 905. If anything goes wrong he can just blame Wynne as he is already so this is a very easy political decision. They have zero intention in ripping it up, even less interest in LRT, as the only ones that want to see that at this point is a select few on Toronto Council.

If Ford gets in the subway will be more stops, smarttrack cancelled and the Province will pay the same whether Liberal or Conservative

PCs will say whatever to get elected. And if you look at Twitter, CBC, etc, there are lots of negative comments about this from the 905.

 

[OneCity]

PCs will say whatever to get elected. And if you look at Twitter, CBC, etc, there are lots of negative comments about this from the 905.

And it doesn't cost the 905 anymore whether SLRT or SSE. And they are not going to care about Scarborough come election time.

I'm not sure how well twitter represents actual voters either. Id be interested to find out. CBC is a left media so that's no shock after a left media firestorm.

The one stop is dumb. We all agree but the options, transfer and the reality of the process to overturn are not without major financial and political consequences. My hope is they add stops and or fund Eglinton East alongside. Which will likely be the battle during the City's election. Both are realistic

Could it happen they cancel? Sure. Highly unlikely as there is little to gain for the Province to cancel. The chaos alone is a non starter and there are votes to lose

 

[Forgotten]

Now they're looking at spending hundreds of millions on a bus terminal you can make a safe bet it won't be extended north of the 401 any time soon. Malvern got scammed by the snake named Tory and his pet dragon named ScamTrack.

Keesmaat is saying we shouldn't build transit to serve existing demand, but rather to serve hypothetical future demand. That's nuts. Contrary to her assertion, we don't build a city by allocating our scarce investment dollars to the projects with the least benefit. We don't even serve existing Scarborough residents by building a one-stop subway instead of a multi-stop LRT. She's acting like a politician instead of a planner.

As usual Kesmaat is full of crap. Why not extend the subway on the existing alignment? Why not have relief line under King? Those two options serve her city-building objectives the best and it's right in the reports put out by her very own planning pups! Is she too busy looking at her Blackberry and twittering during meetings to look at her own department's reports?

But nooooooo! We can't have either thing too close to ScamTrack! And people here think she's going to run for office when her only qualification is experience as a professional sock puppet. #sockpuppet

Tory and Kessmat, the dynamic duo destroying Toronto, one day at a time.

 

[11th]

Ford was so simple, he claimed that converting the SRT to LRT would slow down car traffic.

We have Spadina to thank for that? Toronto has never done grade-separated LRT before (not counting the short tunnel under Bay). We could have saved millions if we had called it "Line 3 refurbishment and extension".

 

[nfitz]

We have Spadina to thank for that? Toronto has never done grade-separated LRT before (not counting the short tunnel under Bay). We could have saved millions if we had called it "Line 3 refurbishment and extension".

Well, it was called the relatively innocuous "Strategic Plan For The Future Of The Scarborough RT" when we started this thread in 2005 - leading to the decision to refurbish it for a whopping $190 million with longer stations and handle newer Vancouver-style Skytrain cars.

 

[adrianaliu]

Well, it was called the relatively innocuous "Strategic Plan For The Future Of The Scarborough RT" when we started this thread in 2005 - leading to the decision to refurbish it for a whopping $190 million with longer stations and handle newer Vancouver-style Skytrain cars.

just convert it to lrt but brand it as enhanced and modernized scarborough rt to get council on board

 

[Rainforest]

There is enough of a voter block in Scarborough to swing the results for a mayor. I'm sure that's what GDB sees as the prize. He doesn't have to sing the old Ford Nation song, either. He just needs to bring Scarborough a subway. Hey, it worked for Lastman, when North York was a similar swing block.

The fear of some other candidate (ie GDB) mobilising this block is the only reason Tory is clinging to the One stop despite its bad economics, imho.

Someone I know who has an insightful grasp of Scarborough politics has been telling me, "whoever brings higher order transit to Malvern first will win". It's not that Malvern is the biggest voter block, but it's the acid test of whether someone can demonstrate their oneness with all of Scarborough's "little people". It just happens that any line to Malvern has to cross all of Scarborough, so just about any route will touch on many voters' worlds. And it doesn't have to be subway either. "If you are looking out for Malvern, you are looking out for all of us", says my friend.

I hope he is right, because it presents the opportunity for someone to propose an alternative to the One-stop and potentially capture this block away from Tory and GDB. Bringing transit to Malvern is potentially cheaper than bringing it to STC.

- Paul

I am starting to think that a new bus-only bridge over 401, or a bus-only tunnel under 401, is a very cheap temporary solution that will result in a noticeable transit improvement for Malvern and for other areas north of 401.

The buses will not be stuck trying to cross over 401 to reach STC.

 

[Rainforest]

There's absolutely no reason to build a Brimley/Eglinton station when the province already has one planned in the Eglinton East LRT.

Why not? That station would give more choise to the locals; they won't need to board Eglinton East LRT just to transfer again at Kennedy.

Plus, those who travel on the LRT from east of Brimley and want to get to STC, will not need to go to Kennedy and then back-truck.

But anyway, if the city decides against the Brimley/Eglinton station and just adds Lawrence East, I suppose it will be good enough.

 

[salsa]

Renew Scarborough Newsletter

For anyone interested. Great to see the community leaders banding together to provide an overdue voice for Scarborough. Heavy support in Scarborough for the Eglinton extension and SSE to be funded and built

"ConnectScarborough is seeking to increase public awareness of this plan and also advocate that this plan gets built. These proposed transit projects are investments in our community, however the benefits are constantly drowned out by opponents that don’t live in Scarborough, who don’t understand the value and necessity of the plan, and who continue to argue against long-term transit planning in Scarborough." http://www.connectscarborough.ca/

Well I learned something interesting about Connect Scarborough. Turns out they are funded by Oxford Properties - the owner of Scarborough Town Centre. The spokesperson of Connect Scarborough, Ryan Singh, is a registered lobbyist for Oxford Properties. He told a Star reporter that the initiative was his idea in conjunction with the mall’s management. He also acknowledged that he represents Oxford Properties and that Oxford is funding the group and paying him to lobby councillors.

I should also mention that the president & CEO of Oxford Properties donated to the Tory campaign. Here's a video clip of him praising John Tory: link

At the Tuesday executive committee meeting, there were at least 4 deputations from Connect Scarborough members, in addition to Oxford and STC speaking on their own behalf. Here are a few of the notable statements and deceptions they perpetrated at the meeting.

• "We need to continue to ask ourselves, what is going to allow the property to thrive?"
  
• "1.6 million square feet [and] there's no subway"
• LRT would be full in 15-20 years, forcing new transit debate (staff ridership projections do not support that)
• SSE will "significantly reduce" commute time for residents. Someone claimed 15-20 minutes, another said 30 minutes (again, this is contradicted by staff report)
• They took issue with this being called a "one stop subway" extension, which is exactly what it is

In another interesting exchange, a deputant criticized the subway saying that the 6 km long stretch without a station was too long.
- John Tory rudely responded: "Are you prepared to accept the fact that business people came in here, the business community, and they talked about the people who would be coming in… it’s not as though there will be tumbleweed rolling down the platform".
- She replied: "What I saw was their interests – their business interests took the forefront, ahead of our residents that need to be serviced first. That’s what I saw today.”

Tory also said of Connect Scarborough: "I think I shook their hand once in a mall, they were at a booth and I think I shook their hand". This is a lie, because here he is mingling with the group in at least two separate occasions. He will also be doing a town hall with them next week to promote his transit plan.

John Tory's involvement with Connect Scarborough has been noted by several people and is now subject to complaints to city watchdog for their ties to developers. Just a "handshake"? I don't think so.