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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

kEiThZ said:
I think even the $2.58 billion quoted is pessimistic. If it costs us $2.58 billion to build a one-stop extension using 6 km of suburban avenue, DRL dreamers better give up now.....
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While it may be convenient for some political viewpoints "downtown has enough subways" to compare SSE and DRL directly, DRL will have new riders if its construction coincides with Unilever development. STC is at base a matter of convenience.

DRL avoids a couple of billion in improvements to Yonge-Bloor where SSE avoided the Province being on the hook for (most of - let's be honest given the impacts of an SRT shutdown and the asset value of SRT lands) the cost of SRT replacement.

DRL will create capacity on routes like 506 as it runs past Regent Park phases 4 and 5 with many of its riders having changed at Gerrard Square for south downtown.

DRL offers the possibility of riders returning to transit having despaired being able to board a northbound subway at Dundas at 5.20pm or a southbound at Wellesley at 8.20am

DRL gets you across Yonge Street when the bloody running races are on.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
The DRL will be 8 to 9 just for the first half.
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$1.5 to $1.6 billion a kilometre? I don't think so.

The last 600 metres from Bond west to the terminus, and the City Hall station are going to be interesting. But the remaining 5 kilometres shouldn't be particularly painful, other than perhaps however they link it into the Danforth subway.

I'm sure it's going to be more expensive than the $400-$450 million/km for Scarborough - but four times more expensive? No.
 
kEiThZ said:
I'm sceptical about the old hydro corridor. It's a lot of time consuming expropriation. And once you start discussing elevated tracks the public consultation and EAs would kill this.

Eglinton-Danforth-McCowan is easy. Minimal expropriation. And long term growth potential.
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There is practically no expropriation when using the Gatineau Hydro Corridor. The Corridor is public land. All we'd have to do is bury the hydro lines in a weather-proof box tunnel that can be financed by sale of land released for the purpose of surrounding development. Think R+P development (not the one advertised by the Fords) This kind of development is done all over the world. The Yonge subway was originally built like this in the 1950's especially between St Clair and Bloor.

I suggest you read this article. I will keep reffering to this article until it sticks in the minds.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...-better-route-for-the-scarborough-subway.html
 
nfitz said:
$1.5 to $1.6 billion a kilometre? I don't think so.

The last 600 metres from Bond west to the terminus, and the City Hall station are going to be interesting. But the remaining 5 kilometres shouldn't be particularly painful, other than perhaps however they link it into the Danforth subway.

I'm sure it's going to be more expensive than the $400-$450 million/km for Scarborough - but four times more expensive? No.
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Isn't the first half now University to Eglinton?

In any event, subways will be all but unaffordable in this city anywhere, if we can't get costs down from 400-450 million per km. I'm honestly curious why this extension is costing so much, when there's little expropriation involved and one station to built (and maybe one more roughed in). This is a tad more expensive than the TYSSE which has a more complex routing, and more stations. I should think a one-stop extension should be about a billion. Tunnelling and a large terminus station.
 
dowlingm said:
While it may be convenient for some political viewpoints "downtown has enough subways" to compare SSE and DRL directly, DRL will have new riders if its construction coincides with Unilever development. STC is at base a matter of convenience.

DRL avoids a couple of billion in improvements to Yonge-Bloor where SSE avoided the Province being on the hook for (most of - let's be honest given the impacts of an SRT shutdown and the asset value of SRT lands) the cost of SRT replacement.

DRL will create capacity on routes like 506 as it runs past Regent Park phases 4 and 5 with many of its riders having changed at Gerrard Square for south downtown.

DRL offers the possibility of riders returning to transit having despaired being able to board a northbound subway at Dundas at 5.20pm or a southbound at Wellesley at 8.20am

DRL gets you across Yonge Street when the bloody running races are on.
Click to expand...

I'm not in anyway debating or questioning the need for the DRL or the potential ridership. Merely stating that if costs keep going in this direction (where it's running at $400 million per km) we're in trouble because subways will be all but unaffordable. At that price, taking it to Sheppard some like some advocate really starts to look difficult. As does building the Western half.

I'm hoping this $400m/km is a rather pessimistic estimate.
 
Anonymous2000 said:
There is practically no expropriation when using the Gatineau Hydro Corridor. The Corridor is public land. All we'd have to do is bury the hydro lines in a weather-proof box tunnel that can be financed by sale of land released for the purpose of surrounding development. Think R+P development (not the one advertised by the Fords) This kind of development is done all over the world. The Yonge subway was originally built like this in the 1950's especially between St Clair and Bloor.

I suggest you read this article. I will keep reffering to this article until it sticks in the minds.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/comm...-better-route-for-the-scarborough-subway.html
Click to expand...
You know that the City of Toronto doesn't own the hydro corridor, right?
 
kEiThZ said:
I'm not in anyway debating or questioning the need for the DRL or the potential ridership. Merely stating that if costs keep going in this direction (where it's running at $400 million per km) we're in trouble because subways will be all but unaffordable. At that price, taking it to Sheppard some like some advocate really starts to look difficult. As does building the Western half.

I'm hoping this $400m/km is a rather pessimistic estimate.
Click to expand...

Relief Line to Sheppard is already projected to cost $470 Million per km
 
As for the plan, since it requires provincial funding, there's no certainty there won't be some editing from the province.

Smarttrack is redundant as Metrolinx already politely stated.

This could lead to Metrolinx deeming Smarttrack East (north of Kennedy) a duplicate of the future GO RER. They would most likely prefer to deliver the subway they promised by re allocating the "not yet" committed funds for this new plan to the subway to at least build Sheppard-McCowan while GO RER could service Lawrence East.

Province still gets the last say here and as stated by the Feds, only the provinces submits projects to be funded by the infrastructure program, not the cities. Toronto can't bypass Queen's Park to get Smarttrack.

By the look of it, Metrolinx aren't very thrilled about it as duplicate and the Ontario Liberals have to deliver their last election promise on delivering the DRL.
 
Cobra said:
By the look of it, Metrolinx aren't very thrilled about it as duplicate and the Ontario Liberals have to deliver their last election promise on delivering the DRL.
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The Liberals promised the DRL in their platform? I don't remember that. Link?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
It was included in a list of about a dozen or so projects they wanted to build in the near term.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/ontario-liberal-budget-to-be-reintroduced-in-20-days-1.1866837
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That doesn't seem to be a campaign promise. Just a pledge to start working on it, in the budget. If I had to bet, I'd think GO RER is more important to them than the DRL.

I can see them pushing for some form of DRL. But I can't see up to Sheppard or even Eglinton, in the first phase.
 
BurlOak said:
Any idiot can build a subway line for $500M/km.
We need a smart person who can do it for $250M.
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Indeed. It's insane that our costs have skyrocketed that high. I wonder if it's just here or a global phenomenon. If we're at 470M/km now, imagine what it'll be at by the time we get shovels in the ground.
 
kEiThZ said:
Indeed. It's insane that our costs have skyrocketed that high. I wonder if it's just here or a global phenomenon. If we're at 470M/km now, imagine what it'll be at by the time we get shovels in the ground.
Click to expand...

A lot of the increase apparently has to do with updated building code and safety regulations.
 
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