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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

seriously.. enough already!!!! weve heard both sides of the debate....and the city chose the direction. Now its time to move forward with what was chosen instead of wasting another 5 years going back to square one
 
Richard Soberman strikes me as one of those people who has certain skills but the biggest of which is persuading/Jedi mind tricking journalists to print what he has to say.
 
Duck said:
Skip the Scarborough subway and modernize the SRT, says transit expert - Toronto Star



This.

(The only other example I can think of where a city "kind of" threw away a functioning rapid transit system and replaced it with something else would be Jacksonville, Florida, where they built a MATRA VAL 256 with 3 stations, ran it for a couple of years, then gutted the guideway and built a Bombardier (well, Universal Mobility) monorail in the trough and extended it into a Y-shaped network.)
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Caen will be converting their Proprietary Bombardier Guided Light Transit System to a proper Tramway system by 2019.
Sydney demolished their monorail line after it reached the end of it's useful life.
So yeah... Cities shut down or replace functioning rapid transit systems.
 
44 North said:
Anyone have a link to the actual report? One thing people might be hung up on is the idea that any 'modernization' of the SRT must involve Bombardier's technology. I doubt this is the case, and I think there are at least a dozen companies that can build affordable, 21stC, non-proprietary light metro vehicles as a replacement - possibly without any significant changes to the existing infrastructure/stations/alignment. There is no rule that says we must buy BBD's MkII or III and continue the ICTS legacy.
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Apparently, the tunnel at Ellesmere means that nothing but ICTS can pass through?!
 
the lemur said:
Apparently, the tunnel at Ellesmere means that nothing but ICTS can pass through?!
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Actually, the tunnel turn means ICTS cannot pass through (anything off-the-shelf from Bombardier such as MKII or MKIII vehicles). They don't make what Toronto has any more.

I believe it's the tunnel height makes it unsuitable for LRT using pantograph, though it can handle the turn radius perfectly fine (AFAIK).
 
rbt said:
Actually, the tunnel turn means ICTS cannot pass through (anything off-the-shelf from Bombardier such as MKII or MKIII vehicles). They don't make what Toronto has any more.

I believe it's the tunnel height makes it unsuitable for LRT using pantograph, though it can handle the turn radius perfectly fine (AFAIK).
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By tunnel, are we talking about the underpass/station box under Ellesmere Rd?
 
coffey1 said:
"Abandoning a 30-year-old capital investment in rail rapid transit would probably make Toronto unique among major cities in the world and probably the universe," he concludes.

This is just the Star continuing to throw some dirt until something sticks. How about moving on from this RT mistake both the technology and route were sub par. The proposed SLRT isnt all that bad but the benefits of the SSE are also very good in many ways.

The real disgrace is still the Sheppard LRT line connecting to a short stubway & that's really something no other major City in the Universe would build. You couldn't draw a map to show truer inequality in transit building being laid out in the same direction

The Star doing there bi-weekly trolling of Scarborough
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I gotta say this is my only hesitation with the SLRT. It's great that it's aligned to go through STC and then northeast to Malvern. But up until that point, it's currently routed through the isolated dead back lots of light industrial uses. That's ridiculous.

I'm still all for LRT over a subway, but it needs a shift to a major street where ridership can grow and the surrounding streetscape can be rejuvenated. Probably Kennedy and Ellesmere.
 
Best option was merging it with Eglinton Crosstown. There was a general consensus on this project, in Scarborough (mostly accepting the technology and the transfer at Kennedy) and the rest of the city until last council killed it.

Since that ship has sail...anyway you put it will not be the optimal solution...Hence the Subway being chosen at a much higher cost
 
rbt said:
They don't make what Toronto has any more.
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Bombardier (and any manufacturer) will make whatever you want, for the right price. Customized MK II vehicles that are 2/3 the length of the Vancouver trains could be built. So what if they cost twice as much? We're talking 1-200 million here for new trains. Not 3 billion for a new subway.

Vancouver also just refurbished a good chunk of its original MK I trains. Did anyone from the TTC ring up TransLink and say "hey, mind giving us a few pointers?"
 
Duck said:
Bombardier (and any manufacturer) will make whatever you want, for the right price. Customized MK II vehicles that are 2/3 the length of the Vancouver trains could be built. So what if they cost twice as much? We're talking 1-200 million here for new trains. Not 3 billion for a new subway.

Vancouver also just refurbished a good chunk of its original MK I trains. Did anyone from the TTC ring up TransLink and say "hey, mind giving us a few pointers?"
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I agree 100%. Anything can be built. And yes it costs more than the "pre package" equipment. But it's common sense. Toronto look for the easy way out and in the end wither buys a lemon or buys the Cadillac where its not required.

Which is also why the Sheppard subway should be changed into the same technology as whatever is used on Sheppard ave throughout Scarborough. How any reasonable person would even debate this type of City building is absurd.
 
Duck said:
Bombardier (and any manufacturer) will make whatever you want, for the right price. Customized MK II vehicles that are 2/3 the length of the Vancouver trains could be built. So what if they cost twice as much? We're talking 1-200 million here for new trains. Not 3 billion for a new subway.

Vancouver also just refurbished a good chunk of its original MK I trains. Did anyone from the TTC ring up TransLink and say "hey, mind giving us a few pointers?"
Click to expand...

Yup they are working with Vancity on the SRT overhaul See here: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/2015/02/26/scarboroughs-creaking-srt-gets-a-makeover.html

"The TTC is partnering with Vancouver, which uses the SRT technology on its SkyTrain, and is sourcing parts from Bombardier and other suppliers to address the SRT's mechanical issues."
 
rbt said:
I believe it's the tunnel height makes it unsuitable for LRT using pantograph, though it can handle the turn radius perfectly fine (AFAIK).
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You don't happen to know the tunnel dimension, by chance?

LRT with retracted pantographs are not that tall. No reason there can't be a short stretch of third rail to get through there. Or we need a battery technology for short stretches of wireless operation. These things are proven, and far cheaper than what is being pursued.

- Paul
 
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