News   May 21, 2024
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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

I favour this approach above all. It's local to the original line's stomping grounds, it's accessible, and conveniently located. I fear greatly however that no one who can influence policy will think this a good idea and the entire system will be wiped from our collective minds and memories.

I don't think HCRR is on the table. They appear to have very limited interest in anything from the heavier rail side of things, considering they haven't saved anything in about 25 years, and I'm told they maxed out their space with the acquisition of the CLRVs in 2019. If they wanted to make value out of an addition and ensure it wouldn't rot out back like many of their PCCs have, they would have to build more storage space.

We really need a Toronto Transport Museum.
 
I am thinking of preserving one of the old stations (say STC) and putting one of the trainsets in it. You can seal the existing structure for weather protection.

AoD

There is precendent.

When I was recently in Budapest they had a static display in a disused Metro station.

They turned the former Deák Ferenc Ter Metro station into a museum when they built a more modern one.

They took an original car from the system and put it in the museum on display.

STC would be great however is it not being redesigned as part of the SSE?

Kennedy would be a better place for a museum. You have the loop, the control booth and a single track.

There is ample space and no need for decking over a track.
 
I reckon y'all may like to see this.

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There is precendent.

When I was recently in Budapest they had a static display in a disused Metro station.

They turned the former Deák Ferenc Ter Metro station into a museum when they built a more modern one.

They took an original car from the system and put it in the museum on display.

STC would be great however is it not being redesigned as part of the SSE?

Kennedy would be a better place for a museum. You have the loop, the control booth and a single track.

There is ample space and no need for decking over a track.

I don't think the existing STC RT station affects the future BD extension STC station much - it's quite a bit of distance away.

AoD
 
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It probably will be, but there is nothing requiring it to be so.

I'd favour Kennedy over STC because I find Kennedy's design to be cooler, but at this point being so particular about which facility would be used is unhelpful, seeing as the possibility of any preservation happening is sadly near zero.

That being said, to say I didn't do nothing to propagate it, I have sent an email inquiring about the idea to councillor Michael Thompson of Scarborough Centre, and I'd encourage anyone who would like to see a piece of the line saved to do the same. I doubt the email will even get read, never mind acted on, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
 
It probably will be, but there is nothing requiring it to be so.

I'd favour Kennedy over STC because I find Kennedy's design to be cooler, but at this point being so particular about which facility would be used is unhelpful, seeing as the possibility of any preservation happening is sadly near zero.

That being said, to say I didn't do nothing to propagate it, I have sent an email inquiring about the idea to councillor Michael Thompson of Scarborough Centre, and I'd encourage anyone who would like to see a piece of the line saved to do the same. I doubt the email will even get read, never mind acted on, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

One might consider nominating one or more stations for designation under the City's Heritage Register. It does seem that the first rapid transit station to be abandoned in the City, plus its architectural and technological details, plus its place in the City's mass transit evolution, might justify giving it heritage status.... the station even more so than the rolling stock, which is a more narrow interest for transit enthusiasts.

- Paul
 
It probably will be, but there is nothing requiring it to be so.

I'd favour Kennedy over STC because I find Kennedy's design to be cooler, but at this point being so particular about which facility would be used is unhelpful, seeing as the possibility of any preservation happening is sadly near zero.

That being said, to say I didn't do nothing to propagate it, I have sent an email inquiring about the idea to councillor Michael Thompson of Scarborough Centre, and I'd encourage anyone who would like to see a piece of the line saved to do the same. I doubt the email will even get read, never mind acted on, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
Kennedy is probably a better option for this type of thing since unlike the other stations, Kennedy isn't going anywhere anytime soon. As well it has the bonus of still having the old streetcar platforms and loop from before the ICTS trains were forced upon us, as well I think that's where the main operating computer for the line is. If you wanted to set up a sore of SRT museum then there is no better spot than Kennedy imo. Also once the SRT platforms are sealed up and become the inverse of Lower Bay should we start refering to it as Upper Kennedy?
 
I had the misfortune of trying out the SRT shuttle buses today. Even by the astronomically low standards by which I judge our transit system, I was deeply unimpressed.

I got on at STC and got off at Midland, with the aim of doing some photos of Midland and Ellesmere stations. Afterwards, I decided to go back to STC.

Some people were waiting at the northbound stop right outside the station, and there was big "line 3 shuttle bus" sticker on the stop sign pole, so I waited. After about 15 minutes, I started to get concerned, having seen 6 buses go by in the opposite direction without seeing any come my way, so I checked TransSee. I was well aware that NB buses were using Kennedy instead of Midland, but logic dictated to me that, given that in the days of the SRT, Midland was served both ways by trains, that shuttle buses would accordingly also serve the station both ways. I was dismayed to see that buses were not going past Midland and were continuing on Kennedy all the way to Progress. There was no information to be seen about this anywhere, the only thing that in retrospect might have clued me in was the fact that the posters on the doors said that to get to STC, one should board NB on Kennedy at Ellesmere. I however assumed they had been placed at the wrong spot (thinking they wanted to put these at Ellesmere) as the southbound instructions were to board on Midland at Ellesmere, and made no reference to the bus stop right outside Midland station that the shuttles were serving.

I logically assumed that if the bus stop showed a line 3 shuttle sticker, that the line 3 shuttles would stop at that bus stop. I trudged up to Progress to see if there might maybe be a stop there... nothing. In fact, I'm not sure where most of the shuttles ended up going, because there were about 4 that I "TransSaw" northbound on Kennedy at Progress, and only one of them actually passed by, the rest must have fallen through a hole in the world. I waited about 10 minutes for the 43 that TransSee said was 10 minutes away, and then checked again to see it was still another 10 minutes away, so at this point I threw my hands up and walked back to STC, disgruntled.

Now that I've had a chance to sit down and browse the TTC website from the comfort of a computer, I am still not immediately clear on the situation at Midland. The future of line 3 page is already showing the map for the 903 that doesn't take effect until September 3, so that's not helpful... and they have another, contradictory map for the interim on street routing!!! On this one, Midland is skipped both ways.


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So if you were a worker at one of the employment zones near Midland, and you needed to get to STC... you have no way of doing this, besides walking long distances through the wastes of Scarberia? Is my understanding of this correct?

It really is no wonder that so many Torontonians hate the TTC. I've seen few companies that have such complete and utter scorn for their clientele as the TTC does. Only here would a rapid transit replacement service somehow not serve a station both ways, and then not even communicate that in a clear, foolproof way. But hey, that's what we can expect from a city that removes a rapid transit line from its map without a replacement.
 
But hey, that's what we can expect from a city that removes a rapid transit line from its map without a replacement.
Yeah I don't see how anyone could have thought this would work. It's never going to work without at least the busway.

Sucks to be in Scarborough without a car.
 
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Yeah I don't see how anyone could have thought this would work. It's never going to work without at least the busway.

Sucks to be in Scarborough without a car.

The service is designed to get from 2 major hubs (Kennedy and STC) as quickly as possible. It is unfortunate how it is all laid out but that is how the cookie crumbled.
 
Yeah I don't see how anyone could have thought this would work. It's never going to work without at least the busway.

Sucks to be in Scarborough without a car.
There is an oft quoted statistic, that something like 70% of TTC users have access to a car and choose to use the TTC instead.

Days like this, it is a wonder to me that anyone uses the TTC except for those who have no choice, and foamers.

Anyway, speaking of foaming, if anyone wants any last minute shorts of the SRT rolling stock, there are some opportunities. I shouldn't wait too long, though. And if you only have a phone and not a camera, don't bother, your shots will look terrible.

Car 3001, which was the one that torpedoed the service, is parked on the loop track at the south end of McCowan yard, shunned and disgraced by the rest of the herd. You can see this from the sidewalk on Ellesmere at Parkington. Don't be fooled, like I was, by the google streetview imagery showing a plaza where you could get right up to the fence and get a killer shot... this no longer exists and this is as close as you can get.

IMG_0462.JPG

If you get up on the little hill past McCowan station (on Grangeway Av), you can see the serviceable cars parked, looking like they're ready to head out into service. Of note here is car 3024, which is actually 3024/II (ex 3016); cars 3017 and the original 3024 were reported as being retired early in July and 3016 and 3025 were coupled together, with 3016 being renumbered to keep the number sequence. There is a visual hint; the "30" is yellowed and dusty, while the "24" looks brand new.
IMG_0496.JPG
 
The service is designed to get from 2 major hubs (Kennedy and STC) as quickly as possible. It is unfortunate how it is all laid out but that is how the cookie crumbled.
Sure, but the way that the cookie should have crumbled would be not having closed down the SRT with 7+ years until a replacement had been built. Otherwise I guess just watch the city be complacent with transit and then say "it is what it is."
 
Some cookie, some crumble. Toronto had a comprehensive report on the urgency of the problem and the options in 2006. (You know, two years after "Transit First" on the east waterfront...) And a finalized EPR on the chosen replacement only 3 years later. Sometimes you have to just dip the cookie in milk and eat it, not just sit around arguing till it turns into crumbs.
 

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