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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

JSF-1 said:
If we went with the Rob Ford plan we wouldn't be building the Finch West LRT right now.
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Sorry, but I don't see Finch as more important than the Relief Line.
Between UP Express serving Weston, and Spadina subway serving Finch/Keele and Jane/Steeles, the north-west was not faring that poorly.

PS. and ECLRT going to Pearson.
 
BurlOak said:
Sorry, but I don't see Finch as more important than the Relief Line.
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Neither do I, and in an ideal world we would be focusing heavily on the DRL as it is the highest priority, higher than the SSE or any other project for that matter. I would have no problem with killing the SSE and FW in favor of the DRL. However that's not what we were talking about. Compared to the DRL yes the FW doesn't even registar, however what was talked about was Fords Crosstown/SLRT hybrid. If we were talking about killing the FW to fund the DRL that's one thing, but we weren't we were talking about killing the FW in favour of a grade separated EC/SLRT which would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that Rob was insistent that it be underground because he didn't want to see us plebians, and peddeled the idea that Scarborough deserved underground transit, while forgetting that large sections of the Subway are already above ground so what the hell makes Scarborough so special. It also speaks volumes for the contempt he had for his own constituents seeing as he was perfectly fine with depriving them of better transit.

Coolstar said:
I thought Rob wanted a subway on Finch.
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Yes he and Mammoliti proposed a subway under Finch West to replace the FWLRT. Think about how absurd that is for second.
 
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OneCity said:
The one stop subway was an absurd idea. To Fords credit he is fixing the line which every other politician in the Province and City should have been doing previously. Instead many did the opposite. I have very little issue with the slight delay here to get the most out of this chosen corridor. Politics are surely being played as they were but the previous Provincial admin and worse on City council but at least this time around its for the greater good of the line and thankfully we can soon move on once its fixed.

I also agree the BDL or Crosstown using the old RT corridor which connected the Centre were very good options. While I'm not a fan of the current RT rail corridor alignment south-east of the City Centre since the stops isolated and not very central I could see the benefits of connecting the Centre and allowing a continued flow thru Centennial College as as Markham/Milner as a beneficial upgrade. Personally I much prefer the current McCowan alignment for the BDL extension for the Central feeder locations so long as the line is built with the intermediate stops. Which is what is going on now, as the line is being fixed.
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So then let the city proceed with the one stop and plan the stations WITH then don't hold up the entire line for 2 more years. This is one is on Doug if nothing opens before 2030.
JSF-1 said:
If we went with the Rob Ford plan we wouldn't be building the Finch West LRT right now.
Click to expand...

BurlOak said:
Sorry, but I don't see Finch as more important than the Relief Line.
Between UP Express serving Weston, and Spadina subway serving Finch/Keele and Jane/Steeles, the north-west was not faring that poorly.

PS. and ECLRT going to Pearson.
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Finch West is going to be the new SRT. They have to extend that to Yonge or it's DOA with 10 years. Especially with the 38 min run time which is almost zero savings to the current 36A/B Bus.
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
So then let the city proceed with the one stop and plan the stations WITH them don't hold up the entire line for 2 more years. This is one Doud if nothing opens before 2030.
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With the City? Gawd No. Never again. The amalgamated City is far too entrenched in divisive territorial politics and shown to be collectively incapable of planning for the greater good. Much greater unity with the bigger picture in mind at the higher level.

I do agree the Province could have had a slightly less delay by designing the stops on the current alignment and moved on. That would have been the best solution but make no mistake the change in scope with Lawrence alone still would have caused delay. But since this Provincial admin is actually fixing the line they surely want to profit politically. And they will. Thats much much much better then the political profit and butchering of the line that went in in the City.

My assumption is they are looking at ways to elevate Lawrence if possible, add a Brimley stop and review the benefits of moving the bus terminal to Sheppard. All items the City should have been doing instead quite a few were too busy working to kill the line and winning ward votes fueling unnecessary City division.

The items that are about to be reviewed are all worthwhile and if its delays a couple years so be it. If they maximize the potential on this corridor for a slight delay Im all for it. No party will even consider overturning a well designed subway line at this stage.
 
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OneCity said:
With the City? Gawd No. Never again. The amalgamated City is far too entrenched in divisive territorial politics and shown to be collectively incapable of planning for the greater good. Much greater unity with the bigger picture in mind at the higher level.

I do agree the Province could have had a slightly less delay by designing the stops on the current alignment and moved on. That would have been the best solution but make no mistake the change in scope with Lawrence alone still would have caused delay. But since this Provincial admin is actually fixing the line they surely want to profit politically. And they will. Thats much much much better then the political profit and butchering of the line that went in in the City.

My assumption is they are looking at ways to elevate Lawrence if possible, add a Brimley stop and review the benefits of moving the bus terminal to Sheppard. All items the City should have been doing instead quite a few were too busy working to kill the line and winning ward votes fueling unnecessary City division.

The items that are about to be reviewed are all worthwhile and if its delays a couple years so be it. If they maximize the potential on this corridor for a slight delay Im all for it. No party will even consider overturning a well designed subway line at this stage.
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But you admit the subway is current not well designed. Which is fine, but you cannot admit Ford delayed the subways again. They're not even in design stage right now.
 
BurlOak said:
Between UP Express serving Weston
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That’s not mass transit in any true sense. It’s only useful for the tiny fraction of people that live within walking distance of the station, only if they’re travelling to the vicinity of Union Station, and they get charged up the a*s for the privilege.
BurlOak said:
Spadina subway serving Finch/Keele and Jane/Steeles, the north-west was not faring that poorly.
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LOL, you mean the TYSSE stations that are 45 mins away from western Etobicoke? That’s like saying the Toronto Zoo is served by Scarborough Centre Station, ffs (and mind that the zoo is only 35 mins away from STC)
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
So then let the city proceed with the one stop and plan the stations WITH then don't hold up the entire line for 2 more years. This is one is on Doug if nothing opens before 2030.



Finch West is going to be the new SRT. They have to extend that to Yonge or it's DOA with 10 years. Especially with the 38 min run time which is almost zero savings to the current 36A/B Bus.
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The key value in FWLRT is not the speed, it’s the capacity. Users of the Finch bus already have to wait for multiple busses to go by before they can board one (commonly as many as 3 buses). That could easily be a wait of 3 to 10 mins, and that’ll only get worse in coming years. With the LRT, customers will be able to get on the first train, all day, every ride, and those rides will be significantly less crowded (most people will have seats, even in rush hour).

When the line is extended east, then we’ll see more significant time savings for crosstown travel.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The key value in FWLRT is not the speed, it’s the capacity. Users of the Finch bus already have to wait for multiple busses to go by before they can board one (commonly as many as 3 buses). That could easily be a wait of 3 to 10 mins, and that’ll only get worse in coming years. With the LRT, customers will be able to get on the first train, all day, every ride, and those rides will be significantly less crowded (most people will have seats, even in rush hour).

When the line is extended east, then we’ll see more significant time savings for crosstown travel.
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problem with this is the fact sheppard will probably be extended to sheppard west station if ford gets his way. then what?
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
But you admit the subway is current not well designed. Which is fine, but you cannot admit Ford delayed the subways again. They're not even in design stage right now.
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Wait a minute. I shouldn't be told to admit something that is broadly false simply because I support better connection or share in the common UT hysterics

Ford indeed spearheaded the cancellation of Transit City at the front of his Mayoral campaign and which i completely agreed with. But if you were a fan of that plan you can surely blame him for that part. The issues in the plan were called out for all the lines and lets discuss what has really happened since because the real blame for the delays and issues since have very little to do with any Ford since.

Make no mistake the Mayor was stonewalled at council on his agreement with the Province and plan to move forward and remove the transfer. It was a collective (weak Mayor) council which reverted back to Transit City and then soon after Liberals sold council on the current McCowan. What happened since?The Liberals took over, John Tory threw his RER wrench to beat Doug by a slim margin and then the collective City council butchered the line and delayed matters.

This is now a Ford fixing the line that wasn't even a Ford chosen corridor. This is hardly a delay as the line the City handed off was not worth building in its current form. So I very have little issue with the direction the Fords went and are going on Scarboroughs main transit projects. I have far greater issues with what many other parties and politicians have done with this line then the Fords. Much of the recent obstruction and destruction to the line was political likely to blame it all on Ford and has now backfired. That firm unwillingness to do better was the greater issue.

The subway replacement and Sheppard subway extension predated the Miller admin. Heck read back to the start even most UT posters expected the BDL to be extended from the beginning. Transit City should have never been proposed and what happened after it was overturned is an absolute shame. This current subway line is only now going in the right direction and this is not a delay to build nothing, It's a delay to build something useful that far too many others neglected to do.


.
 
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OneCity said:
Wait a minute. I shouldn't be told to admit something that is broadly false simply because I support better connection or share in the common UT hysterics

Ford indeed spearheaded the cancellation of Transit City at the front of his Mayoral campaign and which i completely agreed with. But if you were a fan of that plan you can surely blame him for that part. The issues in the plan were called out for all the lines and lets discuss what has really happened since because the real blame for the delays and issues since have very little to do with any Ford since.

Make no mistake the Mayor was stonewalled at council on his agreement with the Province and plan to move forward and remove the transfer. It was a collective council which reverted back to Transit City and then soon after Liberals sold council on the current McCowan. What happened since?The Liberals took over, John Tory threw his RER wrench to beat Doug by a slim margin and then the collective City council butchered the line and delayed matters.

This is now a Ford fixing the line that wasn't even a Ford chosen corridor. This is hardly a delay as the line the City handed off was not worth building in its current form. So I very have little issue with the direction the Ford went and are going on Scarboroughs main transit projects. I have far greater issues with what many other parties and politicians have done with this line then the Fords. Much of the recent obstruction and destruction to the line was political likely to blame it all on Ford and has now backfired. That firm unwillingness to do better was the greater issue.

The subway replacement and Sheppard subway extension predated the Miller admin. Heck read back to the start even most UT posters expected the BDL to be extended from the beginning. Transit City should have never been proposed and what happened after it was overturned is an absolute shame. This current subway line is only now going in the right direction and this is not a delay to build nothing, It's a delay to build something useful that far too many others neglected to do.

.
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Yeah you should because you support the guy and heès unpopular, and he can't keep his promises. This is one of them. The city can be blamed for a lot of things. But like it or not, something was coming he and he held it up. The entire line, rather than just kick in monry for 2 more stops to be intergrated.
TheTigerMaster said:
lol that’s not happening. Never, ever.
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Ford says otherwise supposedly. And how do we know Finch gets extended to the airport? Or Yonge?
 
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