Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

[salsa]

Just came across these pictures on twitter showing the upgrades to Gerrard Street.

I thought they did a nice job in some areas, but then I see the above photo and think to myself, why the hell couldn't they do the same here as they did in the first photo? Parked cars get protected, but not people on bikes?

Meanwhile Peter street is finally getting the bike lanes that were promised long time ago. Bollards will be installed soon, but for now the lanes are full of parked cars from what I hear. So many drivers have absolutely no respect for cyclists.

Source:
https://twitter.com/sslaugh/status/792056152741732352
https://twitter.com/slaughterdotcom/status/792073253678419968

 

[innsertnamehere]

Lanes are always like that when first installed as the signage on the street hasn't been updated. When new signage goes up, people start beahaving better.

 

[amnesiajune]

I thought they did a nice job in some areas, but then I see the above photo and think to myself, why the hell couldn't they do the same here as they did in the first photo? Parked cars get protected, but not people on bikes?

They probably just wanted the bike lane to be straight. They obviously could flip the layout in that last pic - put the parked cars in between the bike lane and road - but then you'd be complaining that the bike lane has an awkward bus-stop chicane to make room for parked cars.

 

[ADRM]

They probably just wanted the bike lane to be straight. They obviously could flip the layout in that last pic - put the parked cars in between the bike lane and road - but then you'd be complaining that the bike lane has an awkward bus-stop chicane to make room for parked cars.

No, you are wrong. Cyclists generally don't complain about design safety measures that reduce the likelihood of them dying.

Routing lanes to the passenger side of parked cars, if street parking is to be retained at all, is always preferred. That's what a real protected bike lane is, rather than most of the crap we have in the city.

 

[amnesiajune]

Routing lanes to the passenger side of parked cars, if street parking is to be retained at all, is always preferred.

Then why did people complain about the Bloor bike lanes doing exactly that? This is Toronto... everyone will complain about anything.

 

[ADRM]

Then why did people complain about the Bloor bike lanes doing exactly that? This is Toronto... everyone will complain about anything.

Because where parking was kept along the Bloor pilot, the separation distance wasn't an acceptable width; it's very easy to get doored.

With the exception of the Queen's Quay portion of the MGT, Toronto has yet to build a genuinely safe, best design practice bike lane.

It's right to complain when the city continues to ignore the safety concerns of citizens accounting for millions of trips when we know there are alternatives.

 

[amnesiajune]

Because where parking was kept along the Bloor pilot, the separation distance wasn't an acceptable width; it's very easy to get doored.

Ok. And if there is enough distance, the complaint would be that since people don't need to check for bikes before opening the door, they're blindly walking out into the bike path. Or perhaps that the bike path is too narrow (since the wider buffer takes up more space) so you can't pass slower bike riders while staying in the bike lane.

 

[ADRM]

Ok. And if there is enough distance, the complaint would be that since people don't need to check for bikes before opening the door, they're blindly walking out into the bike path. Or perhaps that the bike path is too narrow (since the wider buffer takes up more space) so you can't pass slower bike riders while staying in the bike lane.

If you think Toronto has adequate cycle infrastructure then you need to get out more.

If you think Toronto is a unique city in that its residents complain, then you need to get out more.

And if you think "complaining" about poorly designed safety infrastructure is a bad thing, then you just need to get out.

 

[LNahid2000]

With the exception of the Queen's Quay portion of the MGT, Toronto has yet to build a genuinely safe, best design practice bike lane.

Queens Quay still has it's issues...I'd say this bike lane near Queens Park is the safest in Toronto:

https://goo.gl/maps/CVTmpJFxME72

 

[PinkLucy]

Isn't that the one that cars frequently end up in?

 

[andrewpmk]

I have often seen cars illegally driving on the bike path portion of Queen's Quay. The traffic can get really bad along there much of the time.

 

[Wrenkin]

Isn't that the one that cars frequently end up in?

That's probably overstating it. I go through there every day and haven't seen a car. There are a couple issues with the path though. One is the fact that many people heading west along Wellesley in rush hour are actually heading to King's College Circle (instead of Hoskin) and to get there you have to go up and over the pedestrian island at the southwest corner of the park. It can get a little cramped mixing with the pedestrians, and nobody ever stops for southbound drivers . Coming back east through the Queen's Park Crescent West underpass everyone ends up biking along the south side of Wellesley rather than crossing to the north, only to have to come back to the other side at Queen's Park Crescent East. Of the people that are heading east along the segregated path there are always a few jerks who, rather than wait for the signal to cross to the south side at Queen's Park Crescent East, will proceed against traffic through the north side of the intersection and then veer across traffic in an attempt to get back into the south-side bike lane.

There's also the fact that the bike lane isn't that much faster than just going diagonally through the park, especially if you're willing to zip past pedestrians at an unsafe speed.

 

[PinkLucy]

I never go up that way, but I'm referring to this: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cyclist-video-downtown-bike-lane-cars-wellesley-1.3803358

Is it an infrastructure problem or a driver problem? As for drivers on the QQ path, I'm there a lot and it is rare (despite andrew's post) to see a vehicle on the actual path, unless it's a service vehicle. Drivers who find themselves on that path really shouldn't be driving because it's quite obvious that it isn't a road, particularly since it's almost always busy with joggers, cyclists and roller bladers.

 

[LNahid2000]

^Looks like this happened before they added bollards.

The issue with Queens Quay is more with drivers making left or right turns when they're not supposed to, and potentially hitting cyclists who have right of way.

 

[PinkLucy]

^Looks like this happened before they added bollards.

Ah, so the power of the press? That article is only a couple of weeks old -- City staff quoted said they "didn't plan to intervene". But now there are bollards? Excellent.