steveintoronto
Superstar
Salsa:
Many thanks for that. I tried Googling earlier, and the MTA website was all that came up with my first level of search. I can fully appreciate your point on their making it difficult. The difference between US east coast and west coast operators is dramatic in terms of enticing cyclists to the system or not. I've only had experience with southern Californian ones, and they appear to treasure their cycling commuters. Perhaps it's because the west coast is still trying to get commuters out of cars, and the east never has had that problem to the same degree, especially NYC, where taking the train has been a way of life for many generations.
The more I think about a 'permit', and the more I canvas other serious commuting cyclists, the more sense it makes. I think Lis' comment is misplaced, just as it would be for a parking permit. If it means you have the use of a space on a constant basis by demonstrating the right to and the need, then why not? An inconvenience? If so, it's *far* outweighed by the ability to take your machine on the train during peak times. I'm going to have to take some pics in the next few days and post them to demonstrate my concept as explained earlier. The precedent is already set by GO themselves if they allow on "folding bikes" during peak times. The concept I outlined prior would be the equal or better in terms of being non-imposing, but could require standing in proximity to the compacted and lashed machine. Anyone with a quality machine would want to do that anyway, and anyone riding that quality of machine would also be fit enough to.
Union Station would have to remain a 'no-go' with present infrastructures during peak, unless some allowance is made to entrain or detrain at the ends of the platforms such that it avoids the crush.
Every serious commuting cyclist I've talked with so far thinks it's an excellent concept, including the 'permit' for the purpose of filtering only those able to accept the responsibilities of making this work, and a having a quality of machine that will allow it. (Mostly a quick-release front wheel, but also light enough to quickly and safely secure into place) As to how that 'filtering' is affected remains a question without a visit to a GO office. Perhaps a pic of the machine could be sent in to laminate on the permit? I seem to remember a similar process in San Diego for the trolley. One had to visit their HQ downtown, but then the permit was good for a year, and no charge. I'll dig on that and reference.
Edit to Add RE Permit for SD Trolley:
[...][Many cyclists offered their opinions on what could be done to enhance the quality of cycling in San Diego. Most often cited were: • A maintenance program to remove debris from bike lanes and paths • Programs to educate motorists about sharing the road • The installation of bicycle loop detectors at intersections • The elimination of permit requirements to board the Trolley with bicycles. (This last suggestion was submitted before implementation of this change in MTDB policy in July 2001.) ] [...]
https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/defa...rams/transportation/pdf/bicyclemasterplan.pdf
I've been gone longer than I thought! SD treats cyclists with great respect, as does most of California. We can learn a lot from them. They have racks in their Bombardier Bi-Levels for bikes. We can only dream...
As of June 12, 2001, permits are no longer required to take your bicycle aboard the San Diego Trolley. Other restrictions still apply.
Taking Your Bicycle onto the Trolley
If you are at least 16 years old, you can take your bike aboard the San Diego Trolley at any time, even during rush hour.
During rush hours (6-9 AM and 3-6 PM on weekdays) only one bicycle is allowed on each trolley car. At other times, two bicycles are allowed on each trolley car.
Buy a regular trolley ticket or pass. No additional fare is required for your bicycle.
You must enter through the rear door of a trolley car and stand with your bicycle next to the rear driver's cab. Hold your bicycle with one hand and hang onto a pole with the other hand.
Before reaching your destination, turn your bicycle toward the exit door, so you can make a quick, graceful exit when the trolley stops. In almost every case, you may exit to the right. You must exit to the left from eastbound Orange Line trolleys at 32nd and Commercial. (You must also exit to the left at the ends of the Blue Line, but you'll have plenty of time because the trolley will stop for a while.)
In a few cases, the exit door may be blocked by a wheelchair lift. In that case, walk your bike carefully along the aisle to the nearest available exit door.
http://www.efgh.com/bike/trolley.htm
The SD Trolleys run on heavy rail for much of their routings, temporally separated, in 'Tram-Trains' all the way down to the Mexican border. (SD and Eastern runs a freight operation at night over the network) They also run on dedicated main roads in the core of the city downtown. We can learn a lot from them in many respects.
Here's their "Coaster Express" Bombardier Bi-Level arrangement, not dissimilar to what I propose, but they're far more generous with space. (I propose one bike standing upright w/ front wheel popped-off in the area between the door and window, where on GO trains, there's a partition)
[...][Coaster Commuter Train
Bicycles are welcome aboard the Coaster, a commuter train that makes several trips per day between Downtown San Diego and Downtown Oceanside. Unlike the San Diego Trolley, the Coaster was designed to accommodate bicycles.
Buy a regular Coaster ticket or pass. No additional fare is required for your bicycle.
Enter the Coaster through a door with a bicycle icon. Near the door is a space for bicycles, with velcro straps that you can use to secure your bicycle during the trip.
For more information, visit
https://boyonabike.wordpress.com/tag/san-diego-coaster/
Many thanks for that. I tried Googling earlier, and the MTA website was all that came up with my first level of search. I can fully appreciate your point on their making it difficult. The difference between US east coast and west coast operators is dramatic in terms of enticing cyclists to the system or not. I've only had experience with southern Californian ones, and they appear to treasure their cycling commuters. Perhaps it's because the west coast is still trying to get commuters out of cars, and the east never has had that problem to the same degree, especially NYC, where taking the train has been a way of life for many generations.
The more I think about a 'permit', and the more I canvas other serious commuting cyclists, the more sense it makes. I think Lis' comment is misplaced, just as it would be for a parking permit. If it means you have the use of a space on a constant basis by demonstrating the right to and the need, then why not? An inconvenience? If so, it's *far* outweighed by the ability to take your machine on the train during peak times. I'm going to have to take some pics in the next few days and post them to demonstrate my concept as explained earlier. The precedent is already set by GO themselves if they allow on "folding bikes" during peak times. The concept I outlined prior would be the equal or better in terms of being non-imposing, but could require standing in proximity to the compacted and lashed machine. Anyone with a quality machine would want to do that anyway, and anyone riding that quality of machine would also be fit enough to.
Union Station would have to remain a 'no-go' with present infrastructures during peak, unless some allowance is made to entrain or detrain at the ends of the platforms such that it avoids the crush.
Every serious commuting cyclist I've talked with so far thinks it's an excellent concept, including the 'permit' for the purpose of filtering only those able to accept the responsibilities of making this work, and a having a quality of machine that will allow it. (Mostly a quick-release front wheel, but also light enough to quickly and safely secure into place) As to how that 'filtering' is affected remains a question without a visit to a GO office. Perhaps a pic of the machine could be sent in to laminate on the permit? I seem to remember a similar process in San Diego for the trolley. One had to visit their HQ downtown, but then the permit was good for a year, and no charge. I'll dig on that and reference.
Edit to Add RE Permit for SD Trolley:
[...][Many cyclists offered their opinions on what could be done to enhance the quality of cycling in San Diego. Most often cited were: • A maintenance program to remove debris from bike lanes and paths • Programs to educate motorists about sharing the road • The installation of bicycle loop detectors at intersections • The elimination of permit requirements to board the Trolley with bicycles. (This last suggestion was submitted before implementation of this change in MTDB policy in July 2001.) ] [...]
https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/defa...rams/transportation/pdf/bicyclemasterplan.pdf
I've been gone longer than I thought! SD treats cyclists with great respect, as does most of California. We can learn a lot from them. They have racks in their Bombardier Bi-Levels for bikes. We can only dream...
As of June 12, 2001, permits are no longer required to take your bicycle aboard the San Diego Trolley. Other restrictions still apply.
Taking Your Bicycle onto the Trolley
If you are at least 16 years old, you can take your bike aboard the San Diego Trolley at any time, even during rush hour.
During rush hours (6-9 AM and 3-6 PM on weekdays) only one bicycle is allowed on each trolley car. At other times, two bicycles are allowed on each trolley car.
Buy a regular trolley ticket or pass. No additional fare is required for your bicycle.
You must enter through the rear door of a trolley car and stand with your bicycle next to the rear driver's cab. Hold your bicycle with one hand and hang onto a pole with the other hand.
Before reaching your destination, turn your bicycle toward the exit door, so you can make a quick, graceful exit when the trolley stops. In almost every case, you may exit to the right. You must exit to the left from eastbound Orange Line trolleys at 32nd and Commercial. (You must also exit to the left at the ends of the Blue Line, but you'll have plenty of time because the trolley will stop for a while.)
In a few cases, the exit door may be blocked by a wheelchair lift. In that case, walk your bike carefully along the aisle to the nearest available exit door.
http://www.efgh.com/bike/trolley.htm
The SD Trolleys run on heavy rail for much of their routings, temporally separated, in 'Tram-Trains' all the way down to the Mexican border. (SD and Eastern runs a freight operation at night over the network) They also run on dedicated main roads in the core of the city downtown. We can learn a lot from them in many respects.
Here's their "Coaster Express" Bombardier Bi-Level arrangement, not dissimilar to what I propose, but they're far more generous with space. (I propose one bike standing upright w/ front wheel popped-off in the area between the door and window, where on GO trains, there's a partition)
[...][Coaster Commuter Train
Bicycles are welcome aboard the Coaster, a commuter train that makes several trips per day between Downtown San Diego and Downtown Oceanside. Unlike the San Diego Trolley, the Coaster was designed to accommodate bicycles.
Buy a regular Coaster ticket or pass. No additional fare is required for your bicycle.
Enter the Coaster through a door with a bicycle icon. Near the door is a space for bicycles, with velcro straps that you can use to secure your bicycle during the trip.
For more information, visit
https://boyonabike.wordpress.com/tag/san-diego-coaster/
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