Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Amare]

I'd bet if you asked most people in Ontario who the current liberal leader is, a good majority of them wouldn't be able to give you an answer.

Dont worry, with his experience as Minister of Photo-Ops, i'm sure he will be having 300+ photo-ops next year in the run up to next years election. Finding a way to bore the public less than 10 seconds into each one.

People have said that McGuinty was one of the least enthusiastic political leaders they've ever seen, but Del Duca is 100 times worse.

 

[ARG1]

Ummm..........don't get me wrong, the previous administration made its share of mis-steps.

Some of them scandalously so.

But....

That statement is rather an over-reach.

The two projects above represent 17km of transit.

The previous Administration.........

Planned, Approved, Funded and substantially Constructed the subject of this thread, which is a 19km route.

It did the same for the TYSSE (Spadina Subway Extension)

That's another 8.6km

For a total of 27.6km right there.

They also substantially increased GO Transit Service, moving from Hourly on Lakeshore to every 30m all-day, and every 15m on weekdays (daytime)

Not to mention substantially going from rush-hour, to 2-way, all-day service on the Barrie Line; and coming close to that, on weekday for the Kitchener corridor (rush hours excepted).

That's not to suggest they couldn't or shouldn't have done better; or that they didn't over promise and under deliver.

But Doug Ford is a very long way from achieving more than the the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals on transit, or pretty much any other file.

Until you realize this is all they did in 15 YEARS

just say you hate poor people, this is safe space

"People who disagree with me only do so because they hate (insert group here)"
You do know that strawmanning is a bad form of debate right?

No, just because you like Doug Ford or support the conservatives doesn't mean you hate poor people, and upholding this rhetoric is what leads to the situation in the US where political divides are tearing the country apart. The more we spread this vile rhetoric, the less we see each other as human beings, and as civil discussions collapses, that's where the fists come out.

 

[KhalilHeron]

Source?

Global news https://globalnews.ca/news/7374161/eglinton-crosstown-lrt-toronto-delayed-completion/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Moody's%20report,28%2C%202022.

 

[crs1026]

They also substantially increased GO Transit Service, moving from Hourly on Lakeshore to every 30m all-day, and every 15m on weekdays (daytime)

Not to mention substantially going from rush-hour, to 2-way, all-day service on the Barrie Line; and coming close to that, on weekday for the Kitchener corridor (rush hours excepted).

That's not to suggest they couldn't or shouldn't have done better; or that they didn't over promise and under deliver.

But Doug Ford is a very long way from achieving more than the the McGuinty/Wynne Liberals on transit, or pretty much any other file.

Fair enough, but let’s not forget the Liberals

- Committed, but then cut back, Crosstown from Renforth to Mount Dennis
- Began the West Harbour GO extension, to service the Pan Am games, but halted work once the games were confirmed
- Promised, but then cancelled, GO service to Bolton
- Promised GO service to Bowmanville, but took no action to fund or execute
- Declared UPE “on time, on budget” completion while cutting back GO-related GTS scope and deferring 2WAD, 7-day service on the Kitchener line
- Promised enhanced GO service to Kitchener but took no action to fund or execute the necessary track construction
- Promised HSR, completed a major study, then shelved the idea
- Promised electrification, but took no action to fund or execute, then promised to study hydrogen trains instead
-Proposed and initiated negotiations on a Milton bypass, but never completed the deal
- Conducted the design and business case analysis on GO RER, but never funded or executed; suspended procurement to develop a P3 process which has subsequently been found to require substantial greatly rework
- Commissioned a number of GO station design projects, some of which have been shelved while others (Bloomington) are clearly excessive, failed to complete others on time/schedule (Burlington)
- Executed, but then overrode, a new station prioritization analysis

During Ford’s tenure, the Cons have
- Confirmed and begun execution of the Stoney Creek GO extension
- Restarted and completed the West Harbour track signal and station project
- Confirmed and initiated extension to Bowmanville
- Confirmed and initiated the rest of the GTS project including the 409 tunnel
- Confirmed and begun construction of the Finch and Hurontario LRT lines
- Confirmed and continued double tracking of the Stouffville line to Unionville
- Funded and initiated track improvements Georgetown- Kitchener
- Confirmed and initiated the Davenport Diamond flyover and some double tracking on the Barrie line
- Confirmed and continued signal and track improvements in the USRC

Ford has bobbled a few transit things, yes, and Hamilton got shafted, but compared to what we feared when he assumed the Premier’s role, he has advanced the transit file pretty well - fewer promises, but more of what has been promised or confirmed is actually being initiated. It’s other files (urban development, municipal affairs, environment) that are his danger areas IMHO.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Fair enough, but let’s not forget the Liberals

- Committed, but then cut back, Crosstown from Renforth to Mount Dennis
- Began the West Harbour GO extension, to service the Pan Am games, but halted work once the games were confirmed
- Promised, but then cancelled, GO service to Bolton
- Promised GO service to Bowmanville, but took no action to fund or execute
- Declared UPE “on time, on budget” completion while cutting back GO-related GTS scope and deferring 2WAD, 7-day service on the Kitchener line
- Promised enhanced GO service to Kitchener but took no action to fund or execute the necessary track construction
- Promised HSR, completed a major study, then shelved the idea
- Promised electrification, but took no action to fund or execute, then promised to study hydrogen trains instead
-Proposed and initiated negotiations on a Milton bypass, but never completed the deal
- Conducted the design and business case analysis on GO RER, but never funded or executed; suspended procurement to develop a P3 process which has subsequently been found to require substantial greatly rework
- Commissioned a number of GO station design projects, some of which have been shelved while others (Bloomington) are clearly excessive, failed to complete others on time/schedule (Burlington)
- Executed, but then overrode, a new station prioritization analysis

During Ford’s tenure, the Cons have
- Confirmed and begun execution of the Stoney Creek GO extension
- Restarted and completed the West Harbour track signal and station project
- Confirmed and initiated extension to Bowmanville
- Confirmed and initiated the rest of the GTS project including the 409 tunnel
- Confirmed and begun construction of the Finch and Hurontario LRT lines
- Confirmed and continued double tracking of the Stouffville line to Unionville
- Funded and initiated track improvements Georgetown- Kitchener
- Confirmed and initiated the Davenport Diamond flyover and some double tracking on the Barrie line

Ford has bobbled a few transit things, yes, and Hamilton got shafted, but compared to what we feared when he assumed the Premier’s role, he has advanced the transit file pretty well - fewer promises, but more of what has been promised or confirmed is actually being initiated. It’s other files (urban development, municipal affairs, environment) that are his danger areas.

- Paul

Paul.

I'm all for being fair; and balanced.

I took aim at an over-reach; while rightly admitting the serious flaws of the previous administration.

I tend to think of you as a fair poster.

But the above is seriously problem-laden.

Lets start with Kitchener Tunnel, this is the project timeline from Infrastructure Ontario. The winning bidder was selected six months prior to Doug Ford becoming Premier.

From: https://www.infrastructureontario.ca/RER-Highway-401-Rail-Tunnel/

In respect of this statement:

Promised enhanced GO service to Kitchener but took no action to fund or execute the necessary track construction

The current (pre-pandemic), dramatically enhanced GO service exists entirely on infrastructure in place prior to Doug Ford becoming Premier.

They certainly needed to do more, and faster.............

*****

On Bomanville, there is zero construction going on to create that project. Only talk ( the Liberals were guilty of same)

The credit for the 409 contract does not belong to Ford except in so far as he didn't cancel it.

On Stoney Creek.............first Doug cancelled the new station; before going ahead.

He also nixed the extension of full-day service to Hamilton..............(according to a source).....(as in Mx wanted to begin the service)

****

We needn't go over every item.

But suffice to say, I find your take here .........to be a bit off.

 

[EnviroTO]

The Liberal reign is responsible for most of the initiatives we are seeing worked on today. I've been happy mostly with Doug Ford keeping money flowing to transit, and with his Covid response, but it is too early on most items to give him a prize because he actually reset the clock on projects that had made significant progress on design and assessment. If he keeps things on track I will have eaten my words on what I expected him to do after Rob Ford managed to cancel more and promise more than he actually delivered (which was pretty much nothing). For me Ford's continued transit spending (crossing fingers it keeps going) and Covid responses are the big surprises and pluses. The other things he was doing before the Covid distraction were a little more problematic.

 

[allengeorge]

The OPC has asked its members in a survey what their priorities are. I worry that transit and its funding won’t be a focus. At this point I’m just hoping that whatever government is in place keeps GO RER, the OL, EWLRT and the SSE going. And of course, the elephant in the room: the giant hole in operational funding caused by the collapse in TTC ridership

 

[crs1026]

We needn't go over every item.

But suffice to say, I find your take here .........to be a bit off.

I may have been overly kind to Ford, in the sense that I am giving him credit for not killing Liberal-planned initiatives as if that made them a Conservative action item. Merely letting work proceed is less remarkable than getting something off the ground, I agree. Similarly, tearing the cover off the RER plan and rebranding as GO Expansion doesn’t make it a new plan.

On Ford’s election day, I would have bet money that he was about to cancel all three LRT projects - notwithstanding that Finch already had contracts signed. There were other projects especially RER that were procurement ready that the Ford gov’t has also approved and are now in progress.

However, I challenge you to identify an item on my Liberal list of “promised, celebrated as a victory but essentially vapourware” projects that didn’t sit unactioned exactly as I described.

I cast my vote based on who signs the cheques, not on who wrote the study. The Liberals were performance artists running a carney show.... lots of pizzaz, but only occasional efforts to get shovels moving. For a tax-cutting streetcar-hating guy in a huge black SUV, Ford is the one who made the money flow. I think his government is toxic overall, but I would never have predicted so much action (and so many less gratuitous photo ops) on transit.

Underpromise, overdeliver works...

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

During Ford’s tenure, the Cons have
- Confirmed and begun execution of the Stoney Creek GO extension This still isn't under construction as of last week when I drove by, and has been severely delayed as the PCs tried to find a private developer to build it for them before giving up and deciding to build it themselves.
- Restarted and completed the West Harbour track signal and station project This never really stopped between governments from my understanding.
- Confirmed and initiated extension to Bowmanville The Liberals initiated this and the PCs delayed it for years to search for a cheaper option
- Confirmed and initiated the rest of the GTS project including the 409 tunnel The winning bidder was selected in 2017, well before the PCs took power.
- Confirmed and begun construction of the Finch and Hurontario LRT lines This is true. These projects continued more or less on track, but I wouldn't say the PCs did anything different here than the liberals would have.
- Confirmed and continued double tracking of the Stouffville line to Unionville This contract was issued and construction began prior to the election.
- Funded and initiated track improvements Georgetown- Kitchener I believe this one is correct, yes.
- Confirmed and initiated the Davenport Diamond flyover and some double tracking on the Barrie line Yes.
- Confirmed and continued signal and track improvements in the USRC Yes, though the signalling work is from the liberal era. The new south platform which is going to start soon is a PC project though.

See notes in bold. most of these projects aren't really attributable to the PCs.

The PCs have actually delayed many projects for years as they paused most of them and reviewed them for ways to cut costs.

That said, the list of legitimate PC construction starts will be much bigger by the time the next election rolls around. A few of their subway projects will be underway as well as many more GO projects.

 

[nfitz]

That said, the list of legitimate PC construction starts will be much bigger by the time the next election rolls around. A few of their subway projects will be underway as well as many more GO projects.

Even I have to admit, that if they pull it off, the big 4 Toronto transit projects is an impressive achievement, even if I disagree with some of the surface vs underground options.

The phasing itself seems brilliant. Prioritizing getting TBMs in the ground to make them relatively cancel-proof. Starting to dig Ontario Line at Exhibition, but putting the yard at the far north end makes it difficult to shorten once they start digging. And doing the most obviously needed and least controversial piece (Yonge North) last make it more likely that all 4 get built.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The myth of Hitler's role in building the autobahn​

Many people still believe that the Nazis invented the famous German autobahn, and that the construction work helped eradicate mass unemployment in Germany. But this is a historical fiction.

From link.

Adolf Hitler inaugurates work on a stretch of road in a carefully staged propaganda shot

Adolf Hitler takes a spade and sticks it firmly into a heap of sand. One of the soldiers standing around him photographs the Führer, documenting the start of work on another stretch of the famous German autobahn. The image, typical of its time, was circulated nationwide, especially in the regions where little stretches of the "Reichsautobahn" were being built.

The sole aim of all this carefully manufactured propaganda was to make sure that citizens throughout the Reich knew that the building work was going on. Whenever construction started on a new section the event was always meticulously documented and publicized, and big inaugural celebrations marked the opening of every stretch of road.

Hitler makes the autobahn his own

This was quite a turnaround. Only a few years earlier, many members of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) - the Nazis - collaborated with the German Communist Party in sabotaging the construction of ‘car-only roads', as these concrete runways were initially called. The Nazis' argument was that the roads would "only benefit rich aristocrats and Jewish big capitalists and their interests." The Nazis stayed well clear of the political negotiations on financing the motorways. It was only when Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933 that the Nazis realized they could use the autobahn for their own ends.

Until 1929, the economic crisis and the lack of capital meant that it was impossible to build motorways in Germany. The country was struggling with mass unemployment, hyper-inflation and the payment of reparations for the First World War. It was the mayor of Cologne, Konrad Adenauer, who managed to finance and construct the first crossroads-free motorway in 1932 - now the A555 between Cologne and Bonn. The road was 20 kilometers long, and the speed limit was 120 kilometers per hour, though at the time most cars could only manage 60. The Cologne region was said to have the highest volume of traffic in the country. Shortly afterwards, however, the Nazis came to power, and the motorway had only been open a few months when it was downgraded to the status of "country road". The Nazis decided they wanted to take the credit for building the first autobahn.

Yet as early as 1909 a group of automobile enthusiasts, consisting of wealthy industrialists and influential citizens, had already formed a pressure group for the building of a road that would enable cars to drive without interruption - unimpeded by dust or mud, or by horse carriages or pedestrians blocking the way. Work began in 1913 on the so-called "Automobile Traffic and Practice Road" on the outskirts of Berlin. The intention was to construct a 17-kilometer stretch, but in the end the city could only afford to build 10 kilometers. Construction was interrupted by the First World War, and after 1921 the road was mainly used for testing fast sports cars and for motor sports races.

An association was founded in 1926 to push for a transnational road linking Hamburg with Basel in Switzerland via Frankfurt am Main. The Nazis initially rejected the so-called "HaFraBa" initiative. However, after Hitler came to power they appropriated elements of the plan, and the name of the association was changed to the "Association for the Preparation of Reichsautobahns."

Increasing people's mobility

Historians now say that Adolf Hitler simply jumped on the bandwagon of increasing mobility that was already gathering momentum across the world. He certainly recognized the potential for securing his own power and seducing an entire nation with what looked at first like a crazy enterprise. At the time, it seemed clear that very few Germans would be able to afford their own car in order to drive on the new motorways. So Nazi propaganda promised the people full mobility. The idea was to enable everybody to travel - not just the rich. This was how the idea of the Volkswagen - the "people's car" - was born. Hitler also made the German national rail company introduce omnibus transport on the first sections of the new autobahns.

The goal was to complete some 1000 kilometers of autobahn every year. These were the Führer's orders. In 1934, he spoke of the "work battle" that lay ahead, and promised that it would reduce the high number of unemployed. Autobahn construction works were supposed to create at least 600,000 jobs. In fact, even when construction was at its height there were never more than 120,000 people at work. The construction itself was marked by sickness, death, hunger and misery. There were strikes, and the strike leaders were sent to concentration camps. The public, of course, were told none of this.

The autobahn myth

Over the years, an increasing number of Germans found jobs in the booming arms industry. That was what reduced unemployment - not the autobahn construction. During the war years, more and more prisoners and Jewish forced laborers were sent to work in autobahn construction because the regular workers were fighting in the war. By 1941, a mere 3,800 kilometers of autobahn had been completed - half the projected amount. Between 1941 and 1942, construction almost ground to a halt. From 1943 onwards, the autobahns were opened up to cyclists because of the low volume of vehicle traffic..

Yet the Nazis continued to circulate films and photos of workers on autobahn building sites, long after work itself had stopped. This is why the image of colonies of autobahn workersis ingrained in the memories of an entire generation. The Nazis were successful in propagating their image as creators of the German autobahn: it's a myth that often still requires debunking today.

 

[Undead]

^Hi Godwin

 

[Ciarlandini]

Thanks, but I don't think we have any clear info on an opening date just yet. Metrolinx is being tight lipped about when in 2022 it will open. That article only says that the contractor was trying to push back on work deadlines for Eglinton station while opening the rest of the line in Q1 2022. In response, Metrolinx has publicly said that they expect the line to be opened only with Eglinton completed (which implies the opening of the whole line could be delayed). As far as the TTC knows (or at least what we know publicly), is that the opening date is scheduled for April 2022.

View attachment 302074

Black Creek LRT? That's an interesting one.

 

[JSF-1]

Black Creek LRT? That's an interesting one.

It's actually Black Creek LRT Division which I guess is what the TTC is calling the ESMF. So guess the question now for us transit nerds is, is it Black Creek Yard or Black Creek Carhouse.

 

[crs1026]

It's actually Black Creek LRT Division which I guess is what the TTC is calling the ESMF. So guess the question now for us transit nerds is, is it Black Creek Yard or Black Creek Carhouse.

Black Creek Barns, please!

- Paul